Baader-Meinhof mercy plea revives German split over student

#1
Baader-Meinhof mercy plea revives German split over student terrorism
Times Online
Link
A smiling couple arrived bearing a bouquet of roses on the doorstep of the chief executive of Dresdner Bank. As the banker, Jürgen Ponto, turned to call for a vase, he was shot five times through the flowers by a woman terrorist.

That was almost 30 years ago, and yesterday the woman, Brigitte Mohnhaupt, pleaded with German judges to be allowed out on parole.

Now Germany has to decide if it should make its peace with the terrorists of the 1970s. The Baader-Meinhof Gang — later known as the Red Army Faction — killed 34 people, many of them members of the political and business elite.

The State, the police and the judiciary reacted with surprising ferocity, imposing years of solitary confinement on some of the captured terrorists.

It is an issue that still divides German society. Many politicians came to maturity during the 1968 student revolt or the years of ideological terrorism that it spawned. Liberal leaders, such as the Green deputy Antje Vollmer, say that even Nazi war criminals have not had to serve the lengths of the sentences handed down to the Baader-Meinhof followers. Other politicians and relatives of the victims say that there can be no forgiveness.

Mohnhaupt and her fellow killer Christian Klar were hardcore members of the gang. Besides killing Mr Ponto, they also shot dead the West German prosecutor-general Siegfried Buback and abducted, tortured and killed Hanns-Martin Schleyer, head of the West German Employers’ Federation.

Mohnhaupt was sentenced to five life terms and an extra 15 years. The judges took the unusual step of ordering that she stay behind bars for at least 24 years before being allowed to apply for parole.

Those 24 years were up yesterday. The woman who was led by a phalanx of police in bulletproof vests into a fortified Stuttgart courtroom no longer resembled the woman of the “Wanted” posters. Then, she was a resolute-looking blonde with mascara and thin lips. Today the 57-year-old has greying hair, bonier features and the sallowness of someone allowed outside for only an hour a day.
 
#3
BaldricksBullet said:
Well they've got 2 options haven't they. She's suffered enough... so...

1. Public execution to show that terrorism is a bad thing

2. Presidency or leadership of a major political party (Castro, Adams, McGuiness, Mandela, Arafat, Blair etc.)
She'll be at Number 10 for drinkiepoos shortly!
 
#4
Knowing the nampy pampy, tree hugging Über-pc german government, which is just as bad as "Him at No.10"; she´ll probably be out within two months with profuse apologies, damages, a job offer and plenty of dosh from the press for having the "privilege" of printing her story. :pissedoff:

I agree with BaldricksBullet and rickshaw-major. She´ll probably end up going into politics, getting in on a sympathy vote from all the "closet" terrorists and liberal lefties of the 70´s.

Five life terms + 15 ? The arithmetic is simple: She´s still breathing, so she hasn´t even done 1 life sentence, let alone 5 + 15, so shut her up, stick her back in her hole and chuck the key away !!!!
 
#7
All were nasty pieces of work, if I remember correctly. Wanted posters everywhere at the time! But they struck terror into the political and business elite of West Germany, just as the country was stabilising after the upheavals of the 40s and 50s, and the growing wirtschaftwunder was delivering prosperity for the first time for a generation.

Hardly surprising that the establishment hit them hard, I think. Just imagine how this Government would react if a group started picking them off one by one, interspersed with the odd merchant banker/industrialist.

Now there's a thought.... ;)

Litotes
 
#8
Litotes said:
All were nasty pieces of work, if I remember correctly. Wanted posters everywhere at the time! But they struck terror into the political and business elite of West Germany, just as the country was stabilising after the upheavals of the 40s and 50s, and the growing wirtschaftwunder was delivering prosperity for the first time for a generation.

Hardly surprising that the establishment hit them hard, I think. Just imagine how this Government would react if a group started picking them off one by one, interspersed with the odd merchant banker/industrialist.

Now there's a thought.... ;)

Litotes

Hmm .... Check Firing!

Is it illegal to have these thoughts - yet?
 
#9
I can understand that they were really disgruntled at the time. I also can see that they saw no alternative in the accepted ways of entering a political debate but terrorism???

Terrorism is a bad thing in any country.

What needs to be looked into though - they did pick and choose their targets. They didn't throw bombs at people of the general public, other religions or caste.

They chose to channel their terrorism against those in charge. Would that then be the sort of terrorism we have witnessed in N.I. or in other Hotspots?

Like I said, I detest Terrorism but think that a bit of debate down this avenue could be interesting.
 
#10
rickshaw-major said:
Litotes said:
All were nasty pieces of work, if I remember correctly. Wanted posters everywhere at the time! But they struck terror into the political and business elite of West Germany, just as the country was stabilising after the upheavals of the 40s and 50s, and the growing wirtschaftwunder was delivering prosperity for the first time for a generation.

Hardly surprising that the establishment hit them hard, I think. Just imagine how this Government would react if a group started picking them off one by one, interspersed with the odd merchant banker/industrialist.

Now there's a thought.... ;)

Litotes

Hmm .... Check Firing!

Is it illegal to have these thoughts - yet?
Nice ... how about an annual cull of politicians - it would keep those remaining at the trough on their toes and save the taxpayer money :crazy:
 
#11
It's not for nothing that they were referred to as 'Hitler's Children'; their 'disgruntlement' resulted from them being typically middle-class spoilt offspring, who had overdosed on the unmitigated b*ll*cks which 1968 threw up. It's irrelevant who they attacked - they were murderers.
 

untallguy

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#12
Certa_Cito said:
Five life terms + 15 ? The arithmetic is simple: She´s still breathing, so she hasn´t even done 1 life sentence, let alone 5 + 15, so shut her up, stick her back in her hole and chuck the key away !!!!
I have no problems with this.
 
#13
One author indeed termed them ’Hitler’s Children’ when more poignantly they perhaps should have been referred to as ’Marx’s Children’. If Stalin had all his own way Europe should have become subservient to him and the Soviet as the war ended. Just because formal large scale aggression ended in Europe, it in no way meant he stopped trying to achieve his goal. The ideals that came largely from western Universities played upon unattainable ideals of some utopian existence, with the doctrines of Marx, Engels and those who came after as a guiding light while everyone who didn’t subscribe, by default, were fascists.

Even when the propaganda was that acts were perpretrated in the name of a ‘free people’ against fascism, underlying was a greater, better conceived, and far more consequential foundation. Irrespective of who was targeted, any may be killed and were killed in some delusion a greater good had to be served.

People have an undisputed right to protest – peacefully – and withdraw their labour to show strength of feeling. To commit murder is quite a different matter and arguably cannot be taken as a form of protest. On TV in the 60’s I saw Buddhist monks burn themselves to death in public in protest of the Vietnam war. So, if someone wants to make the ultimate protest, they have an example.

No.9
 
#14
Leave her to rot or let her out on licence dont really care. They wanted to
reveal the true power of the state by their actions .Can hardly act surprised when they all ended up dead or locked up .
 
#15
although obviously you would'nt be allowed to hunt them with dogs as that would be cruel.
have you ever seen a hound retching after eating something it should'nt :thumright:
 
#16
They were truly evil people - not only did they murder people but in many cases tortured them first.

But I doubt she is any threat to anyone now and I think another 5 years to rub it in to her that she was wrong then maybe let her out.
 
#18
Why don't they just let her out? It's not as if she's any danger, is it?

And let's also not forget that the German state topped Andreas Baader, Gudrun Ensslin and Jan-Carl Raspe in Stammheim in 1977, and Wolfgang Grams in Bad Kleinen in 1993. The question is: why can the state sanction murder just to cover it's own mistakes?

MsG
 
#19
Hadn't Grams shot a Copper?
 
#20
PartTimePongo said:
Hadn't Grams shot a Copper?
He'd actually shot two of them (two bullets apiece), PTP, but only one of them karked it (Newrzella). However, that's why they topped him (Grams) as he was lying on the tracks after being hit four times. All in all the BKA (Bundeskriminalamt) wallahs fired at him 33 times, while Grams himself fired 10 shots back (or 11 if you count the head-shot he was supposed to have fired as he "committed suicide").

MsG
 

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