Discussion in 'RLC' started by SpeckledJim, Jul 24, 2005.

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  1. Just taken up a new appointment (I'm not RLC by the way) and discovered that due to licensing changes our guys don't get the "E" bit on their license after their Phase 2 dvr trg and therefore can't drive a L/R and trailer!!! So if anything kicks off, the majority of my guys will be stuck at the starting point trying to find someone who has the correct licence! What's all that about. Apparently its not just a problem confined to my small trade. One answer given to me was to get them on HGV trg, but this seems a big hammer to crack a small nut! Any idea's?
  2. This is a result of the Government's scheme to make sure that all people who drive with a caravan attached in the future, will have actually passed a test to prove that they can actually drive the thing.

    It's not retrospective though, so the old duffers you see bombing along at 60 with a caravan wildly weaving behind them, are still on the road.

    This is going to cause a problem for the military though, as the youngster who passes his driving licence still has to go back to get his B+E, and that's just adding to the training time. For the most part, the RLC will get around this as recruits get their C+E which supercedes the B+E.

    Another thing you might want to look at will be the minibus drivers - your Phase 2 will not have a D licence either, so no minibus driver when you want to go on the pop.
  3. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Doesn't that depend on the number of pax, or has that been changed too ?
  4. Minibus now requires a D licence. Over a certain age you get Grandfather rights, although I can't remember offhand when it kicked in.
  5. SpeckledJim, why don't we just get who ever controls the contract for our techs driver training to amend the contract to include the trailer bit. There is another issue, as far as i understand it, in the fact that even with B+E they still can not drive a wolf unless they have attended a service GS drivers course. This I believe is a 10 day course and requires to be run in house by a DI, like we have loads of them in our trade.
  6. If your Unit has a noticeable shortfall in BE drivers then why don’t you approach you nearest DELTA. Once you explain the problem they will/should allocate the required contracts.

    In my unit the RLC are the minority. The Joeys do not get any licences granted in phase 2. I have managed to secure Cat C, D and BE driver training.

    If you are unsure on the process drop me a “pm” and I will help you out.
  7. smaller minibus is D1 i think?
  8. Thanks for the steer(s) ('cus the pun) guys. Probably sort out licence issues then find with all BOWMAN baggage we can even load the vehicles with all our kit anyway!!
  9. The driving licensing changes came about because of the need to fall in line with the European driving licensing categories. I think the changes started to come into effect in April 1992. On of the big worries of the time, was what licence was required to drive a 4 tonner with troops in the back (4 Ton Truck with troops = PCV (licence Cat D)). I can’t remember the outcome, but I don’t think the army started bus training.

    Prior to 1 Jan 1997, the voluntary sector in the UK only needed a car licence (Old license group E) to drive a minibus, providing it was not for hire or reward. This enabled well-meaning people to take the Scouts/Guides on their Summer Camps and so on. To allow this practice to continue after 1 Jan 1997, went against the European regulations. As all minibus drivers in Europe must have a Cat D Licence.

    So as not to close the UK voluntary sector, the Government negotiated a concession. Drivers who passed there test prior to 1 Jan 97 would get a new licence category (D1) to drive minibus with not more than 16 passenger seats, providing they drive voluntary basis, there is no hire and reward element and the vehicle is operated on the UK mainland. If any of these factors are ignored, then the driver needs a Cat D Licence

    “Hire and reward”. If the driver receives payment for operating the vehicle it is not voluntary. A School teacher moving students to a football game a minibus, is being paid and driving the bus is a duty, so the teacher needs Cat D.

    A minibus being operated under these rule, is identified by placing a section 19 small bus permit in the windscreen.

    How the military applies these rules if beyond the scope of the above ;)

    DVLA D1 Licence

    Community Bus Permits
  10. As a general rule, the military does not operate the permit 19 rules that allow unqualified drivers to drive minibuses. RFCA continue to operate this for moving cadets around but this is the exception and certainly not in the regular Army. If you need to drive a minibus and you passed you car (B) licence after Apr 97, you will need to take a D1 driving test. Your unit should speak to your Brigade Master Driver for the training.
  11. Drivers who do not have minibus entitlement (Category D1)

    In Civi Street, There are times you dont need a D1

    If your driving licence does not allow you to drive minibuses, there are certain circumstances where you still may be able to do so.

    You may drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats if:

    i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or reward, unless operating under a permit;

    ii) you are aged 21;

    iii) you have held a car (category B) licence for at least 2 years;

    iv) you are providing your service on a voluntary basis; and

    v) the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes excluding any specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers. Minibuses up to 4.25 tonnes will be permitted in certain circumstances.

    Hire and Reward

    If the driver is receiving a wage for driving a Minibus using a D1 licence, the driver would have a problem in a court of law proving they where not receiving any reward. The vehicle should be driven on a D licence.

    Unless the military still use Crown Exemptions, I would suggest that any service personnel told to get in a bus and drive, are being paid!

    It’s not my intention to indicate what the military should be doing. There was some confusion in previous posts about D1. I’m just trying to give a background into why this country has Cat D1 licence and its application to Civi St.