Autorotations in Gazelle or Lynx?

#1
Guys,

Whats the autorotaion exercises are like in a Gazelle and a Lynx? Does either one drop like a brick when the QHI closes the throttle?
How fast do you lower the collective and how soon before pulling up the nose when approaching the ground? Or does the QHI restore engine power at 5-10 ft off the deck?

Cheers
 
#3
Raven2008 said:
Guys,

Whats the autorotaion exercises are like in a Gazelle and a Lynx? Does either one drop like a brick when the QHI closes the throttle?
How fast do you lower the collective and how soon before pulling up the nose when approaching the ground? Or does the QHI restore engine power at 5-10 ft off the deck?

Cheers
Gazelle floats like a butterfly, Lynx drops like a grand piano. Gazelle has an auto speed range between 0 to 120 knots, Lynx is 80 kts shit bust. Gazelle has approx 1800-2500 fpm RoD, Lynx 3000-3500 fpm but if heavy, can get to about 4500+ fpm. We dont 'close the throttle' when conducting autos, we just lower the collective. Gazelle NR (rotor speed) is very stable, Lynx is very lively and requires careful handling. Typically, in a variable flare engine off landing in a Gazelle, the flare (nose up) starts at about 150' but because its a variable flare, its when ever you feel like it or its dependant on wind, surface, weight etc. A constant attitude EOL, there is no requirement to flare. Just check the collective when your arse twitches. In the Lynx, about 200' ish.

Why?
 
#4
I've been in an autorotation in a Wessex, it was like been pushed over the grand canyon in a double decker bus.

Pilot though it was great fun though
 
#5
T-L-F-H

Cheers for that, I fly the R-44 Raven II and liked to compare it with turbine a/c.....I didn's ask about the AS-350 as got mates that fly it and they told me the autorotation conditions.
 
#7
I can remember watching Whirlwinds autorotate at Shawbury in the late 70s. Some of the efforts caused the Duty Pilot to suddenly look away whilst the rest of us just waited for the crash. Never happened, but there were lots of heavy landings, which resulted in the groundcrew performing lots of checks. I assume it was not the easiest chopper to autorotate and land.
 
C

cloudbuster

Guest
#8
The Gaz auto is quite benign. ISTR getting introduced to them by Capt Patterson on my Crewman's course.

The Lynx, OTOH, comes down like a lorry-load of MFO boxes.
 
#9
Raven2008 said:
Guys,

Whats the autorotaion exercises are like in a Gazelle and a Lynx?
In a Gazelle it comes as a complete fcuking shock or it did to me the once. There I was, sat in the back with a Gaz TRGB on my lap and wearing just ear defenders as it had been a fastball and I hadn't had the time to pick up a headset and I was looking down trying to spot that nudist camp that everybody talked about, when all of a sudden I get this sinking feeling and I didn't know whether to find God or the emergency door release.

Note to quiche eaters, if you're going to practice engine offs, please warn the poor cnut in the back (first). :lol:
 
#10
Long time since I did this (in a Gazelle), but you lower the collective smartly as soon as the instructor says "practice engine failure, go" - or as soon as your engine quits, if it's for real. You've got to keep the rotor speed up, so getting it down pronto is vital, otherwise the rotor speed drops, the blades fold up, and you are going to die. Once you've got the lever down, it feels like you are in a lift, and the RCDI goes off the clock!
You flare the nose at around 300 feet, start pulling the pitch in (if I remember rightly) at around 100 feet, tightening it up as you near the deck. JUST before you touch, you let the lever down, keep it straight with pedal as you pull the pitch, nose forward, and you're down.
Great fun. Excuse me if that is not 100% right (especially re. heights), I did my last one in January 1988.
Then they chopped me, gits.
 
#11
Correction to my post - as someone else here said, I think the pitch up is lower than 300 feet, and of course, the nose forward bit comes as you pull the pitch in at the bottom.
Generally you do engine-on autos, (or at least we did in RN). Then, once your instructor sees you do several safe ones, they do engine-offs.
Brave people, instructors.
 
#12
codbutt said:
You flare the nose at around 300 feet, start pulling the pitch in (if I remember rightly) at around 100 feet
I'm sure you are one of my old students!? Flare at 300', check collective at 100', run out of experience and NR at 90', give it back to the QHI to sort out......thanks :p
 
#13
The-Lord-Flasheart said:
codbutt said:
You flare the nose at around 300 feet, start pulling the pitch in (if I remember rightly) at around 100 feet
I'm sure you are one of my old students!? Flare at 300', check collective at 100', run out of experience and NR at 90', give it back to the QHI to sort out......thanks :p

Isn't that what QHIs are for? :D
 
C

cloudbuster

Guest
#14
It probably feels closer to 300' the first time you try it. The range auto was a fun exercise.............
 
#15
I can't add anything to the details of how it is done but have experienced autorotation in a Gazelle quite often

I was the Recce safety officer in BATUS in the 80's and had to check the various templates prior to each Med Man, given the area I had to cover I was allowed to do it from the air, as a result I was flown around the area by the permanent staff flt comd and had some interesting experiences. One of his tricks was to autorotate back into the airfield and depending on how well he did (ie did he miss the designated landing point or have to turn the power back on) depended on who was to buy the drinks in the bar that evening. For some reason I ended up always buying the first round, never really trusted the pilots after that. Gerat fun though.
 
#16
mistersoft said:
Raven2008 said:
Guys,

Whats the autorotaion exercises are like in a Gazelle and a Lynx?
In a Gazelle it comes as a complete fcuking shock or it did to me the once. There I was, sat in the back with a Gaz TRGB on my lap and wearing just ear defenders as it had been a fastball and I hadn't had the time to pick up a headset and I was looking down trying to spot that nudist camp that everybody talked about, when all of a sudden I get this sinking feeling and I didn't know whether to find God or the emergency door release.

Note to quiche eaters, if you're going to practice engine offs, please warn the poor cnut in the back (first). :lol:
A pilot did the same to my dad over the North Sea. He was being ferried to one of the rigs in a Bristow Super Puma (I think) and the pilot decided to practice his auto rotate/ditching drills without telling the pax! Apparently, there were a few choice words once they realised that they weren't going to die! :D
 
#17
Recce19 said:
mistersoft said:
Raven2008 said:
Guys,

Whats the autorotaion exercises are like in a Gazelle and a Lynx?
In a Gazelle it comes as a complete fcuking shock or it did to me the once. There I was, sat in the back with a Gaz TRGB on my lap and wearing just ear defenders as it had been a fastball and I hadn't had the time to pick up a headset and I was looking down trying to spot that nudist camp that everybody talked about, when all of a sudden I get this sinking feeling and I didn't know whether to find God or the emergency door release.

Note to quiche eaters, if you're going to practice engine offs, please warn the poor cnut in the back (first). :lol:
A pilot did the same to my dad over the North Sea. He was being ferried to one of the rigs in a Bristow Super Puma (I think) and the pilot decided to practice his auto rotate/ditching drills without telling the pax! Apparently, there were a few choice words once they realised that they weren't going to die! :D
:lol: Yes, we had a few words when we got to Detmold and we weren't discussing the Gaz TRGB that I still had to exchange at the rag and shag.

Maybe an urban myth (it was fcuking aeons ago) but around that time, a Gaz had gone out to practice engine offs and the crewman would suddenly and without warning chop the throttle and then let the pilot do the business. All was going well until the crewman didn't chop the throttle but for some still inexplicable reason, pulled on the emergency fuel shutoff. That time, the engine off was for real.
 
#18
mistersoft said:
Maybe an urban myth (it was fcuking aeons ago) but around that time, a Gaz had gone out to practice engine offs and the crewman would suddenly and without warning chop the throttle and then let the pilot do the business. All was going well until the crewman didn't chop the throttle but for some still inexplicable reason, pulled on the emergency fuel shutoff. That time, the engine off was for real.
No myth! Trying to remember the chaps name.

I've known of a few occasions where the fuel shutoff has been pulled instead of retarding the throttle. A long walk back from the engine off area...

And lets not forget doing a full engine off due to having a sticky tq gauge :wink: (you know who you are :p )
 
#19
cloudbuster said:
The Gaz auto is quite benign. ISTR getting introduced to them by Capt Patterson on my Crewman's course.

The Lynx, OTOH, comes down like a lorry-load of MFO boxes.
Was he D&D............Later to Boscombe?
 
#20
"Capt Patterson"

As WO II Patterson, Inf 660 Sqn , he gave me a right royal rifting, fully deserved as the Full screw who had let me and the Crew down found out about 5 mins later.

john
 
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