Australian Tiger ARH

Christ, that's embarrassing. I remember the boots saga. I was one of the last to get issued black gp boots in my battalion. They were brilliant.

Then came the brown boots that you had to smear in dubbin to keep them waterproof. They were meant to be an "interim " boot until new, sexy boots were procured, hence the cardboard inner soles. The "interim" boot stayed around for about 10 years iirc.
The poo boots were the "interim" boots - I still have an unworn pair in the garage.

They started out being a nice shade of brown, but later production runs were green.
boots-gp1.jpg




After them came several different "trendy" boot designs, all of which were hopeless.

Everyone just wanted to go back to Black GPs.
 
I remember those green boots. They looked bloody shocking.
Then of course you had the Auscam/DPCU shamozzle. Uniforms issued with an "anti infra red" treatment. Which was presumably great until you ironed the uniform, which rooted the "anti infra red" treatment.
 

weegwa

Old-Salt
Don't forget the great dodgy Chinese parade boot saga....thousands of Aussie Soldiers losing their souls (soles;-) ) on ANZAC Day. Again, DMO gave up and bought us all a lovely pair of $380 RM Williams leather boots...
 

longtimeout

War Hero
Except 2Cav weren't equipped with tanks, they had M113 and then Auslav.

And Australia never had Leopard 2..

Apart from that... Cool story bro.
 

longtimeout

War Hero
I remember those green boots. They looked bloody shocking.
Then of course you had the Auscam/DPCU shamozzle. Uniforms issued with an "anti infra red" treatment. Which was presumably great until you ironed the uniform, which rooted the "anti infra red" treatment.
I was in one of the first units to get the new Auscam uniforms.

They came with clear instructions that they were not to be ironed. We all thought "fantastic news!".

The RSM didn't share our enthusiasm...

Apparently the IR treatment also didnt like washing powder.
 
Except 2Cav weren't equipped with tanks, they had M113 and then Auslav.

And Australia never had Leopard 2..

Apart from that... Cool story bro.
My apologies. You are correct on both scores.

It was 1st Armoured, who moved from Puckapunyal to Darwin (at the same time as 2 CAV moved there). And they were indeed Leopard 1s, not 2s.

It was 20 years ago now, and I wasn't involved - thats my excuse anyway!
 
On a side note there's stories going around that 2/14 Light Horse might be scoring some Abrams tanks for some reason.
 

longtimeout

War Hero
So you "supposedly" attended Staff College, but you have a minimal understanding of the role, location and equipment of the major Armoured formations of the Army.

I can only imagine that any soldiers who had the misfortune to have to follow you did so purely out of a sense of morbid fascination.
 
So you "supposedly" attended Staff College, but you have a minimal understanding of the role, location and equipment of the major Armoured formations of the Army.
.
My recollection of Staff college are of Manoeuvre Warfare (I still have Edgars Beer Coaster), Centres of Gravity, Decision Points, Spans of Command, OPCOMD, OPCON, PIR, FFIR, Decisive Events and studies into the German Matrix TASKORG.

The TEWTs bore no semblance to reality and every scenario commenced with a MAF invasion of mainland Australia and the massive assistance of ABCA at Corps level.

Most of my plans therefore involved UK, American and Canadian brigades that had bugger all chance of ever setting foot in Australia, and a range of weapons (eg Javlin) that we hadn't ever signed purchase orders for at the time.

Forgive me, many years later, for forgetting who had the aging Leopard tanks that even then were widely recognised as being obsolete.

I hope things had improved by the time you went through.

Edit - in my opinion Duntroon was better than my MBA, but my MBA was better than Staff college. Make of that what you will.
 
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I was in one of the first units to get the new Auscam uniforms.

They came with clear instructions that they were not to be ironed. We all thought "fantastic news!".

The RSM didn't share our enthusiasm...

Apparently the IR treatment also didnt like washing powder.

Yes yes that's all very wel but did you wear them up and in or down and out?l
 

longtimeout

War Hero
Always down and out.

We did have our cowboy reputation to think of.

The beginning of the end was when they started making us wear slouch hats, with the brim down, but still with a badge fitted.

You could only see the front of the badge if you were lying on the ground.

I could never see the logic in that.
 
The beginning of the end was when they started making us wear slouch hats, with the brim down, but still with a badge fitted.
.
When I joined (originally in the Reserves) we had a beret, a giggle hat and a parade slouch. One corps badge on the turned up side.

Then we were issued bush slouches that had no badges at all. Those bush slouches disappeared around 1990.

Then over time the parade slouch began to look like a Christmas tree. The Corps badge moved to the front, the rising sun appeared on the turned up side, and a colour patch suddenly appeared on the puggaree.

The beret disappeared (OH&S) and a very wide brimmed giggle appeared, they you hat to stiffen with a coat hanger.

Whats it like now?
 
Bell is trying to flog the AH-1Z to AUS...conveniently forgetting Tiger has already operated from a naval platform in 2011 during the campaign against Libya (below pic)...




Bell Helicopter is pitching its AH-1Z Viper helicopter to the Australian Defence Force (ADF) to be utilised as a maritime attack platform aboard its two landing helicopter dock (LHD) amphibious assault ships, a company representative told IHS Jane's at the Avalon Airshow yesterday (24 February).


Bob Carrese, regional vice-president for Asia-Pacific, said while there is no formal Australian requirement, Bell Helicopter is briefing the ADF on the Viper's capabilities ahead of an expected decision on whether to upgrade its Airbus Helicopters Tigers to a maritime configuration.


"The AH-1Z is already doing all of the missions that the ADF is doing [with the Tiger], and more. It can carry 16 Hellfire [air-to-surface missiles] plus two Sidewinder [air-to-air missiles], and has the cost-per-flight-hour figures that the ADF has been looking for," he said.


While the Australian Army does currently field 22 Tiger helicopters, a decision is expected to be made under Phase 3 of the Project AIR 87 Tiger Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) procurement programme on whether to upgrade these helicopters to be able to operate from the decks of the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN's) two Canberra-class LHDs (HMAS Canberra was recently commissioned, while the future HMAS Adelaide is currently under construction in Spain).


More at:

http://www.janes.com/article/49417/...-1z-as-maritime-attack-platform-for-australia
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
Bell is trying to flog the AH-1Z to AUS...conveniently forgetting Tiger has already operated from a naval platform in 2011 during the campaign against Libya (below pic)...




Bell Helicopter is pitching its AH-1Z Viper helicopter to the Australian Defence Force (ADF) to be utilised as a maritime attack platform aboard its two landing helicopter dock (LHD) amphibious assault ships, a company representative told IHS Jane's at the Avalon Airshow yesterday (24 February).


Bob Carrese, regional vice-president for Asia-Pacific, said while there is no formal Australian requirement, Bell Helicopter is briefing the ADF on the Viper's capabilities ahead of an expected decision on whether to upgrade its Airbus Helicopters Tigers to a maritime configuration.


"The AH-1Z is already doing all of the missions that the ADF is doing [with the Tiger], and more. It can carry 16 Hellfire [air-to-surface missiles] plus two Sidewinder [air-to-air missiles], and has the cost-per-flight-hour figures that the ADF has been looking for," he said.


While the Australian Army does currently field 22 Tiger helicopters, a decision is expected to be made under Phase 3 of the Project AIR 87 Tiger Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) procurement programme on whether to upgrade these helicopters to be able to operate from the decks of the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN's) two Canberra-class LHDs (HMAS Canberra was recently commissioned, while the future HMAS Adelaide is currently under construction in Spain).


More at:

http://www.janes.com/article/49417/...-1z-as-maritime-attack-platform-for-australia
As have a considerably more potent attack helicopter WAH64
 
As have a considerably more potent attack helicopter WAH64
Some call it more potent, some call it very expensive to operate and even more expensive to deploy....

  1. Apache costs a great deal to run, the quoted flying cost of £46k per hour as we know, includes all sorts of costs but in comparison with other types of fixed and rotary aircraft, it is still near the top. Gazelle is £2k and Tornado £25k using the same quoted tables.
  2. Anecdotaly, it is maintenance heavy
  3. It has been battered from many years of continuous use
  4. It’s avionics are not to the latest standards and will need an expensive upgrade
  5. Maintenance costs of the upgraded version are not clear because it will be a UK specific upgrade
  6. It will need additional and costly modifications to improve utility at sea
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2013/06/ah-worth-it-or-not/
 
Some call it more potent, some call it very expensive to operate and even more expensive to deploy....

  1. Apache costs a great deal to run, the quoted flying cost of £46k per hour as we know, includes all sorts of costs but in comparison with other types of fixed and rotary aircraft, it is still near the top. Gazelle is £2k and Tornado £25k using the same quoted tables.
  2. Anecdotaly, it is maintenance heavy
  3. It has been battered from many years of continuous use
  4. It’s avionics are not to the latest standards and will need an expensive upgrade
  5. Maintenance costs of the upgraded version are not clear because it will be a UK specific upgrade
  6. It will need additional and costly modifications to improve utility at sea
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2013/06/ah-worth-it-or-not/
Ref 1 - unless you know whats being compared its often apples n oranges.
ref 2 - All rotary wing aircraft are maintenance intensive* - some are better than others but all are worse than fixed wing. Sales Brochures that talk about low maintenance are rather circumspect in stating compared to what.
Ref 3 - I fail to see how the condition of UK apache relates to whether the aircraft is a better or worse platform for a customer.
Ref 4 - As will tiger in the future its hardly a unique issue
Ref 5 - I suspect the UK will upgrade to US standard or more likely buy new. The engine commonality with Merlin is by all accounts not as common as the name suggests.
Ref 6- as will Tiger, in this regard the Cobra has a distinct advantage although personally I cannot see

* If its got a bloody great fan on top - even on a good day it is simply a collection of parts trying to spread themselves out over a wide area and as such needs constant care and attention to ensure it doesn't succeed.
 
Always down and out.

We did have our cowboy reputation to think of.

The beginning of the end was when they started making us wear slouch hats, with the brim down, but still with a badge fitted.

You could only see the front of the badge if you were lying on the ground.

I could never see the logic in that.
I joined the chockos in late 93 and we had our sleeves up. Four fingers above the crook of the elbow.
 

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