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Australian Reserve Recruiting

#1
Having just gone through the initial approach to the Reserve forces out here I am baffled at their recruit training policy and structure for the reserve forces.

Soldier entry candidates have to do a 7 week long recruits course and then do their specialist training (2- 6 weeks).

Officer entry have to do a 3 day induction, followed by a six week course, then 5 x weekends and finally another 6 week long course. After all this they then go on to do their specialist training (2- 6 weeks again).

What employer in their right mind is going to let someone off for that continuous period of time - mine certainly won't. They also seem determined to ignore 10 years of UK experience as "the australian defence force do things differently".

Tossers. :evil: :evil: :evil:
 
#2
Hmm, I am rather surprised about what they ask, though it is understandable to some extent. From reading thier website I was under the assumption things would be spend up for a candiate with military experience. Have you tryed talking to the Australian consulate and explaining your situation?

Cheers 2CB
 
#4
Have you tryed talking to the Australian consulate and explaining your situation?
Yes and the response i got was:


the australian defence force do things differently

Whilst annoyed about having the possibility of doing basic all over again, to an extent i don't mind, what really annoys me is the time frames for basic training
 
#5
I have came across the "we do things differently" school of thought before upon meeting some former Australian squaddies they were full of the big storys which quite surprised me due to their role and responsibilities. I do think they have a slight problem with the British forces and in some cases I have met, actualy look down on the British Army 8O
 
#6
We really are not sure what to do with our Reserves. There was a push not that long ago for "one Army" which, among other things, meant that Regs and Reservists all tried to do the same initial training training. The seven week recruit course is a hangover from that (it used to be two weeks). I am surprised that there has been no recognition of prior learning/service, I will have to talk to a Brit mate who is a Sgt in the Regs to see what happened to him.

V, I am not sure how to take your comment. Most people I know appreciate the history (as it is ultimately a shared one), and look toward the UK Army as a model of a moderately sized, well trained, 'bang for your buck' Army.
 
#7
Have a friend who was party to the deployments to Indonesia in the late 90's working with Aussies. Their officers were desperate to the point of hysteria of not letting the Brits take any sort of lead. It was actually quite funny, apparently.

His opinion: The Aussies were defending their right to do ops in "Their Back Yard." They, up to that point, really didn't get up to much and didn't want the British Army getting in the way. Despite having bags more experience (or porbably because of it).

Well, as for chippiness, I lived in southwest London for ten years. Australians at BBQ's who've lived here for seven years or so telling you earnestly how EVERYTHING is better Down Under is a daily feature of life that you learn to live with.

V!
 
#8
L-G, I would think one of the Australian Scottish Regiments would love to have you.
 
#9
There was a real scramble to get to Timor in 99, the only decent deployment we had in years. Been a bit of a change since then however.

Expats telling you how much better things were at home is not a purely Australian thing. You should hear the ten pound poms still go on about Blighty.

Back on topic, unconfirmed story I had today is that we even make our ex-regs go through recruit trg if they have been out for five or more years. You learn something new every day.
 
#10
You'd think so RC_S wouldn't you...but no! So far they have all kept dribbling on about how different the Australian Army is and how 10 years experience means bugger all to them. (must be worried that i would expose some of their plastic jock / McWaltish practices). I've not soldiered properly since November 2003 so would accept that i may need refresher training in some elements.

However, even if they do turn around and recognise previous qualifications and experience there is no way my employer would let me off for the courses given their current length (6 weeks) - really no employer in their right mind can afford to loose someone for that period of time and i'm buggered if i'm going to use up all my holiday + take 2 weeks unpaid to do 1 course, especially when there is another 6 week long course later on the same year.

For a country that is in many respects very get up and go, i'm very disappointed in their blinkered approach. Hell it's not as if they're over flowing with recruits at the moment anyway...very disappointed.
 
#11
It makes no sense at all.

You've written to the Australian consulate it says above. Have you written to your local Australian elected representative?
It's hard to believe this would be written 'policy' wrt previous military experience/qual especially from within the Commonwealth.

I can't see employers giving all that time off either, unless it's legislated to do so, and I doubt it has been.


Maybe NZ Forces will take you? ;)
 
#12
I have been following this topic with some interest. I spent 19 years in the British Army followed by three in the Australian Army, two in the NZ Army and am now back in the Oz Army once again. Most of the disparaging comments above are, I'm afraid to say, quite correct and before I forget, I wouldn't bother considering the NZ Army option - why do you think I was only there for 24 (long) months!
Recognition of prior service seems to be a bit of a lottery over here. I got it but I know those that didn't. Quite often none is offered but if you ask for it you get it!
I think the biggest injustice is for WOs who transfer from UK to Oz. As a general rule all ex WO2s and WO1s join the ADF as Sgts - can you believe it!! The "we do things differently" and "just because you were that rank over there doesn't mean you are good enough for it over here" attitude is very much alive and well.
I will stop before getting completely astride my high horse but if anyone has any questions I will be delighted to try and answer them.
 
#13
Ghengis said:
....I think the biggest injustice is for WOs who transfer from UK to Oz. As a general rule all ex WO2s and WO1s join the ADF as Sgts - can you believe it!! The "we do things differently" and "just because you were that rank over there doesn't mean you are good enough for it over here" attitude is very much alive and well....
Hmm, how would a Warrant Officer from the Australian Defence Force go on transfer from Oz to the UK?
 
#14
One of my old units, 4RGJ, were affiliated to the Sydney University Regiment and frequently had some of their personel over on year and two year attachments. I also know of a couple of lads who got attached to them when they went out to Oz to work.

There was no additional training either way, and no complaints on standards.
 
#15
IrishGuard,

I don't think it wise for me to go where your question is leading. It would be moving away from matters of policy and fact into the area of individual ability - and passing comment there on.

I'm sure that the quality of SNCOs and WOs across the Oz Army is broadly speaking little different to that in the UK. It will range from excellent to decidedly average (at best).

The one thing I would say that I miss about British Army SNCOs and WOs (well infact all ORs) is their sense of humour.

I think it fair to say that the ADF these days appears to have a greater leaning towards the US military 'way' rather than that of the UK. In my humble opinion, this manifests itself in a rather rigid, black and white way of doing things with somewhat of a paucity of style and natural humour. However, only my observations and opinion.
 
#16
Vegetius said:
The Aussie army has a history of chippiness to the British. Don't expect any favours from them.V!
Maybe it's because they are tired of hearing the whinging pommy accent, "We don't do it like this back home"

Ghengis said:
...I think the biggest injustice is for WOs who transfer from UK to Oz. As a general rule all ex WO2s and WO1s join the ADF as Sgts - can you believe it!! The "we do things differently" and "just because you were that rank over there doesn't mean you are good enough for it over here" attitude is very much alive...
For a start, they don't transfer. They are joining the Australian Army after having served in the British Army. Why then is it an injustice for the British Army Warrant Officer to be enlisted as a Sergeant in the Australian Defence Force? Surely the injustice would be to the Australian Cpl waiting for promotion to the vacancy that has just been filled by some ex Brit who just arrived off the boat.

Ghengis said:
...I think it fair to say that the ADF these days appears to have a greater leaning towards the US military 'way' rather than that of the UK. In my humble opinion, this manifests itself in a rather rigid, black and white way of doing things with somewhat of a paucity of style and natural humour. However, only my observations and opinion.
I don't know about the 'rather rigid black and white way of doing things' but I agree that these days there is certainly a lack of style and humour but like the UK we are overwhelmed by political correctness and that doesn't just apply to the military but in all walks of life. As for leaning towards the US 'way', that doesn't just apply to the military, even the youth of Australia are talking like Americans and instead of G'day Mate, its Hi, and instead of Blokes, it Guys, but I daresay that the the UK and the rest of the world is facing the same cultural threat.

I remember in the early 60's there was a big recruiting campaign in the UK for ex British Military to join the Australian Military. The main theme to the Ads were, "Being an Officer isn't all sunshine, but there is more of it in Australia." At that time, hundreds of Brits were recruited to the Australian Defence Forces. The ones that were successful accepted their new country for what it was and those who were unsuccessful were the Pommy Whingers who failed to adopt and continued to remind the Australians that, "We don't do it like this back home"
 
#17
IrishGuard said:
.......................... were the Pommy Whingers who failed to adopt and continued to remind the Australians that, "We don't do it like this back home"
That isn't atypical of (some) Englishmen though is it.

Line-Grunt though isn't an Englishman......
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
My old regiment had a long and succesful affiliation with ADF and lots of ex long look placements. Stand by for a when I! During Lionheart in 84 we had 2 Oz cpls attached and both bailed out after 2 weeks due to injuries from the kit we were carrying. Now they wern't filling command roles, just observers and had no ammo, weapons etc but even our pay sgt was made to be a rifleman in my section. His kit weighed less than the shadow from my beergut and back then I was fit! The problem seemed to be that the Oz on loan/observing were not used to being donkeys with lion attitudes. I suppose when as a Nation they were born in fire at Gallipoli they had a rough time, but so did everyone and they cannot seem to get the "Bluidy Brit Officer" Stereotype out of their heads. Never mind the ones you get to know are pretty ok for descendants of Criminals!
 
#19
This isn't a whinge about "we do it better in the UK..." It is more about why are the ADF so bloody blinkered about their reserve recruit selection and training process. The training schedule is a farce - as i've said before, no company in it's right mind would let someone go on a 6 - 7 week course. If they tried this system in the UK the TA would die overnight.

Hell, even the Americans are finding it hard to get people into the National Guard units, as they have exactly the same approach as Australia do to reserve forces recruitment and training.

I don't mind (too much) going back through basic again - after all new country and I believe in demonstrating both commitment and how good i am at what i do / did.

Why are the ADF soo keen to parrot the US Army in terms of training and doctrine when there are much better examples elsewhere on how to recruit and maintain a capable reserve force component? I guess it is because the US is the biggest player on the field at the moment - this does not make all they do the best though - just look at their education system for a start.
 
#20
The US have had a huge influence over us lately for a number of reasons:

- We keep exercising with them
- We have a number of them on exchange in training and doctrine positions (Brits too, but I seem to run into more Yanks on courses)
- The media, and therefore we, keep watching CNN.

As I said before, we are not sure what the Reserve is there to do. We therefore go in circles trying to develop training for them that meets duty of care and employability requirements, while balancing that with civi employment holidays and our ability to sell the Reserve.

Answers on the back of a postcard please. In the mean time????????
 

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