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Australian Defense Force selects Boeing AH-64E Guardian to replace the Tiger

I have been away for a few hours. Any update on the new Franco Prussian war? Are the German Army dining in Paris yet?

I hear Australia may have declared war on France.
England jumped in for a bit then fucked off home to come up with a plan.
Ireland stuck its nose in then hid behind the curtains as per.
The yanks turned up offering to sell kit at exorbitant prices.
There's an Aussie looking for a fight but he's bound to piss and moan about how much fighting he did compared to others.
Standard so far.
 
Sorry but if you keep on using septic spelling, the English are going to have to give you such a shoeing, the likes of that you haven't seen since Agincourt. FFS it was you lot who put the U in most of these words in the first place and we adopted them into English straight from French.

Tell that to Samsung autocorrect....but l agree
 
Instead of insults, why can't you give a rational explanation ? Why are French Tigre flying and fighting while Cherman ones aren't ?

View attachment 540422
Why are the French Tigers so amazingly good while all other user nations are losers?

You wanted a rational explanation why the deployment of the German Tigers in Mali is causing such problems. The main reason is that the MTR390-2C engines used are simply not suitable for the environmental and climatic conditions that occur in the area of operation. The French probably use the MTR390E for their Tigres, which are somewhat better suited.
Even with the ASGARD upgrade, the engines are operating at their absolute limits in the more frequently occurring outside temperatures of over 43 degrees Celsius. The actual temperatures that occur during the flights are up to about 70 degrees, depending on the surface and the radiating heat. Far beyond what the manufacturer considers permissible for faultless operation.
In addition, there is the aggressive sand and dust that affect the engines and other components as well as the heat.
The temperatures also do funny things to the electronics and greatly exacerbate the problems that occur during regular operation in a moderate climate.
I can link the relevant type certificates if you like, they are in German of course.

Of course, I went a bit further and thought "Zut Alors!" and "Buggrit!", I thought of Collette in France who did rather interesting things with and to me as an exchange student in the field, in the forest and also in her mother's parlour. I thought of her tenderly whispered: "Caresse ma chatte" and me looking frantically for the cat and of the deep impression she left on me and I of course in on her.
I thought to myself the nice French man keeps insisting that there are no problems with the French Tigres and that in French hands they behave like a bunch of nubile, sex-hungry, hot 22 year olds with full firm breasts and hard erect nipples who, after draining your balls, also cook, do the dishes, clean the house and then go for round two.

In short, I did some more research "Et Voila!" I found some rather interesting articles. Of course they are in French and I thought maybe the nice French man can do the translation but I don't want to bother you with details.

Un rapport pointe les causes de la (très) faible disponibilité des hélicoptères de l'armée de Terre | Zone Militaire

Report points to causes of (very) low availability of army helicopters

Whether on national territory or in external operations, the army cannot do without helicopters. "There is therefore a very strong link between aeromobility and operations", General Jean-Pierre Bosser, Chief of Staff, even stressed during his last hearing before the members of the Defence Committee.

However, the availability of the different types of helicopters used by the Army Light Aviation (ALAT) is certainly insufficient. This situation was described as "unbearable" by Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian during an examination of the credits allocated to his ministry in the enlarged committee of the National Assembly on 2 November.

The latest report by deputy François Lamy on the army budget puts forward some annoying figures. We learn that the average technical availability over 12 months of Tiger attack helicopters is only 24%, while the average age of the aircraft in stock is 6 years. That of the NH-90 Cayman, which entered service 2 years ago, is 35%. For the Cougar (25 years old on average), it is only 21%.

In total, the technical availability of the 303 ALAT helicopters is 38%, with an average age of 25 years. The average is raised by the Gazelle (46%) and the Fennec (46%). And the 70 Puma helicopters that have been in service for 42 years show an availability of 30%.

How did this come about? First of all, one of the causes is the intense operational activity of ALAT, which uses machines in difficult environments, such as in the Sahel for example.

"Sunlight can cause the helicopter's canopies to crack; driving on laterite runways with stones can cause shocks; the air-conditioning of aircraft such as the Tiger helicopter can fail, which is all the more disabling because it is used to refresh the on-board computer components and because spare parts are rare and subject to stringent European standardisation, etc.", notes Mr Lamy.

Another reason is that the financial effort made for Scheduled Equipment Maintenance (SAM) is "just enough". But the causes are much deeper still and are linked to the complexity of the chain that ensures the maintenance of these helicopters in operational condition (OCM). The MP identifies at least ten of them.

One of them is the "cumbersome nature of the contractual arrangements underlying the aeronautical OCM system", with certain contracts being "badly drafted". The ALAT commander, General Michel Grintchenko, explained that "although on the surface we have a single contract, in reality there is a multiplicity of people in charge and they pass the responsibility on to each other. "For Philippe Coq, in charge of public affairs at Airbus, the fault lies with the armed forces, which "perhaps underestimated the complexity of the helicopter issue", Mr Lamy said.

However, according to the Rapporteur, industry, whether public or private, was not to be outdone. "A major bottleneck in the helicopter maintenance circuit is at the level of industrial support (NSI)", he noted. Thus, the duration of the aircraft's immobilisation is much longer than expected (383 days instead of 183 for the Tiger, 18 months instead of 90 days for the Cougar...).

Here, Airbus Helicopter admits its responsibility by mentioning "endogenous problems that it is up to it to solve". This is what it has started to do for the maintenance of the Tiger, for which the duration of periodic visits has been reduced from 30 to 42%.
"By nature, a private operator pursues profitability objectives that do not necessarily meet the interests of the armed forces, whose budgets for scheduled maintenance of the equipment are constrained," said Mr. Lamy, who has also expressed reservations about the productivity of the Aeronautics Industrial Service (SIAé), which is a public player. Thus, a Tiger can spend 10 months in the workshops of the latter instead of 6...

Another problem identified by the MP is that the "means of maintenance" of the ALAT units are "undersized in relation to the intensity of external commitments. "And this is amplified by the difficulties in retaining the most experienced mechanics, attracted by the more attractive prospects offered by the private sector.
Furthermore, as General Grintchenko explains, "the intensity of OPEX commitments contributes to increasing the workload of the ALAT workshops" and "the pace of the rotations is such that to continuously commit some 30 helicopters to OPEX, it is necessary to have about 90 aircraft. "However, he adds, "their rotations create a significant workload for their packaging, transport and maintenance on their return from OPEX. Even if this workload does not translate into flight hours consumed, it does place a heavy burden on the workshops. »

Moreover, according to General Grintchenko, the commissioning of latest-generation helicopters, such as the Cayman, "connected to the industrial sector almost in real time", presupposes "computer networks, computer specialists and all other 'back office' skills that ALAT no longer possesses since they were pooled" at joint level.

Finally, the low availability of ALAT's helicopters can also be explained by a clearly insufficient supply of spare parts, in particular due to "under-calibrated" contracts in relation to actual needs. "We are paying the debts of the years of the 'peace dividend'," deplored General Grintchenko.

However, in order to remedy the urgent lack of spare parts, other aircraft are being "cannibalized". In other words, to make a helicopter fly, parts are taken from other helicopters. And this gives rise to an additional workload when the latter arrive at the manufacturer's to be repaired.

La faible disponibilité des hélicoptères de l'armée de Terre induit une "perte sèche de potentiel opérationnel" | Zone Militaire

The low availability of army helicopters leads to a "dry loss of operational potential".

"A Tiger flight calms the spirits," it is now said in the Central African Republic, where two such aircraft were deployed as part of Operation Sangaris. And this illustrates the fact that this attack helicopter is essential for land operations.

"It's a great tool. It's certainly a capricious 'dancer', but don't take it away from us," says General Michel Grintchenko, head of the Army's Light Aviation (ALAT). In Afghanistan, this aircraft has made it possible to "actively protect convoys, sometimes engaging in violent combat with the Taliban, who would have liked to make us replay the RC4 scenario in the Indochina war," he recalls.

Yes, but the Tiger's technical availability rate in terms of equipment does not even reach 25% over 12 months... And, obviously, this poses major operational challenges, with, as François Lamy, MP, draftsman of the opinion on the credits allocated to the Army, points out, "the effects of loops unfavourable to the maintenance of the pilots' skills".

But this does not only concern the Tiger crews... Those of other types of helicopters are also affected by the low availability of ALAT aircraft, which is largely due to the complexity of the operational readiness chain (OCM), the pace of operations and the lack of maintenance personnel in the regiments.

The mechanics are simple: as the average availability rate of ALAT helicopters is only 38%, there is a lack of aircraft to provide pilot training and instruction, especially as the machines in flight condition are used primarily for external operations (OPEX).

Thus, the 5th Combat Helicopter Regiment (RHC) was only able to "consume" 455.3 flight hours between 1 January and 31 August instead of the 984 hours that had been planned.

According to NATO standards, pilots must each complete a minimum of 180 hours of training flights per year. This threshold is raised to 200 hours for special forces pilots. However, as Mr. Lamy points out, "the number of flying hours available, given the low availability of helicopters, is not yet sufficient to reach the level of training required for specialised pilots in the new generation fleets (Tiger and Cayman). »

He added: "These volumes are insufficient to allow all Army helicopter pilots to train enough to be fit for OPEX. In order to be 'projectable' in OPEX, pilots are subject to regulatory conditions of aptitude that require them to have flown at least 140 hours over 12 months for conventional forces and 200 to 220 hours in special forces. »

However, according to the report, between 25% and 33% of the pilots of one of the regiments most in demand for OPEX "do not even fly 140 hours in 12 months. »

This situation has several consequences. The first is that ALAT, which is thus struggling to renew its skills, is faced with a problem known as "human regeneration", which is further aggravated by the departure of a "generation of experienced drivers". »

According to Mr. Lamy, the ALAT is thus forced to "a very fine management of human resources", which consists in "identifying one by one the pilots called to be hired in OPEX 8 months later, and to concentrate on them the flight hours available in metropolitan France. "As for the other pilots, in principle the youngest, they have to "wait and see" by making do with "substitute flight hours".

And, in the end, the tendency is to "project more or less always the same pilots in OPEX", as is the case in the 5th RHC. But sometimes crews who have not completed the required minimum number of training hours are sent on operations.

This, Mr Lamy adds, "leads forces to complete their training directly in theatre", which, in his view, results in a "dry loss of operational capability for helicopter detachments in theatres of operation, because the duration of this additional training is directly attributable to the projection time of the personnel concerned. »

Moreover, the insufficient level of training of these crews "necessarily translates into risk taking in OPEX. »

To remedy this situation, ALAT has recourse to a few "expedients", such as the use of simulators. However, as the Rapporteur observes, this can only be a complementary and not a palliative measure, given that "real flight remains indispensable".

Another solution would be to call on the private sector, by leasing AS332 Pumas and EC-120 Colibri aircraft from Hélicoptères de France. "But this "allows some training, but not all". For information, the rental of a civil Cougar costs 10,000 euros per flight hour, including maintenance.

Finally, another practice aims to share helicopters in flying condition between regiments. This is how the Cougars and Tigers of the 5th RHC and the 4th Special Forces Helicopter Regiment (RHFS) were pooled according to a "platform logic".

I'm sure if my Spanish did amount to more than "Chupe mis huevos senorita, mientras acaricio tus tetas" I would certainly find corresponding reports.

Thank you and have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
So,the aircraft are under-resourced, far too expensive, down times are horrendous (by any standard) and there's a shortage of pilots,mechs, IT staff and any other type of specialist you can think of, spares holding is pants, tech support is pants and cannibalisation is the norm. The Airbus boss is blaming the soldiers and some people are diving for cover, to avoid any blame attaching to them. The old Gazelle and Fennec appear to be the most serviceable, basically because they are the simplest of them all and the lessons of operating in the desert are being relearnt by a new generation of service personnel. You could insert Atlas instead of Tigre, or any other procurement scandal for the last 50 years. There'll be a TED talk along in a minute...
 
Not strictly true, The Spanish beats us by 5 years establishing concentration camps in Cuba in 1895. The next in line where our American cousins with camps in both Cuba and the Philippines
Concentration Camps Existed Long Before Auschwitz
Concentration Camps Existed Long Before Auschwitz | History | Smithsonian Magazine
Concentration Camps Existed Long Before Auschwitz From Cuba to South Africa, the advent of barbed wire and automatic weapons allowed the few to imprison the many
www.smithsonianmag.com

The Germans were fairly late to the game starting in 1904 establishing Sharrk island to deal with revolting natives in Namibia.
Shark Island concentration camp - Wikipedia
Ausschwitz was an Extermination camp, my examples were not meant to find out who was the worst boy in the schoolyard.

I am well aware that in modern times the Germans have this title due to the industrialised genocide, while the Russians and Chinese fight for second place, but also the French are in the top ten due to Algeria and Vietnam.

If you look long enough you will find some horrible deeds in the history of every country, the question is whether you can hold the people living today responsible for the deeds of their ancestors.
 
I’ll just leave this heer
destroyed in 1940
1F0B55AC-0006-471D-B840-20B00EF466BB.jpeg
 
Ausschwitz was an Extermination camp, my examples were not meant to find out who was the worst boy in the schoolyard.

I am well aware that in modern times the Germans have this title due to the industrialised genocide, while the Russians and Chinese fight for second place, but also the French are in the top ten due to Algeria and Vietnam.

If you look long enough you will find some horrible deeds in the history of every country, the question is whether you can hold the people living today responsible for the deeds of their ancestors.

Mao was Champions league
Adolf was Premier league for sure maybe even European cup standard not up there with Mao though.
If this was the world cup Mao is Brazil, Adolf is er Germany.
 
Mao was Champions league
Adolf was Premier league for sure maybe even European cup standard not up there with Mao though.
If this was the world cup Mao is Brazil, Adolf is er Germany.
Don’t forget pol pot
or that pipe smoking uncle from gori



it seems there are two types of tigre

French that works fine
export that suffers from a lot of maladies
 
Don’t forget pol pot
or that pipe smoking uncle from gori



it seems there are two types of tigre

French that works fine
export that suffers from a lot of maladies
You forgot the third one, put in batter and then deep fried, Eurocopter sells them as the William Wallace Edition.
 
Why are the French Tigers so amazingly good while all other user nations are losers?

You wanted a rational explanation why the deployment of the German Tigers in Mali is causing such problems. The main reason is that the MTR390-2C engines used are simply not suitable for the environmental and climatic conditions that occur in the area of operation. The French probably use the MTR390E for their Tigres, which are somewhat better suited.
Even with the ASGARD upgrade, the engines are operating at their absolute limits in the more frequently occurring outside temperatures of over 43 degrees Celsius. The actual temperatures that occur during the flights are up to about 70 degrees, depending on the surface and the radiating heat. Far beyond what the manufacturer considers permissible for faultless operation.
In addition, there is the aggressive sand and dust that affect the engines and other components as well as the heat.
The temperatures also do funny things to the electronics and greatly exacerbate the problems that occur during regular operation in a moderate climate.
I can link the relevant type certificates if you like, they are in German of course.

Of course, I went a bit further and thought "Zut Alors!" and "Buggrit!", I thought of Collette in France who did rather interesting things with and to me as an exchange student in the field, in the forest and also in her mother's parlour. I thought of her tenderly whispered: "Caresse ma chatte" and me looking frantically for the cat and of the deep impression she left on me and I of course in on her.
I thought to myself the nice French man keeps insisting that there are no problems with the French Tigres and that in French hands they behave like a bunch of nubile, sex-hungry, hot 22 year olds with full firm breasts and hard erect nipples who, after draining your balls, also cook, do the dishes, clean the house and then go for round two.

In short, I did some more research "Et Voila!" I found some rather interesting articles. Of course they are in French and I thought maybe the nice French man can do the translation but I don't want to bother you with details.

Un rapport pointe les causes de la (très) faible disponibilité des hélicoptères de l'armée de Terre | Zone Militaire

Report points to causes of (very) low availability of army helicopters

Whether on national territory or in external operations, the army cannot do without helicopters. "There is therefore a very strong link between aeromobility and operations", General Jean-Pierre Bosser, Chief of Staff, even stressed during his last hearing before the members of the Defence Committee.

However, the availability of the different types of helicopters used by the Army Light Aviation (ALAT) is certainly insufficient. This situation was described as "unbearable" by Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian during an examination of the credits allocated to his ministry in the enlarged committee of the National Assembly on 2 November.

The latest report by deputy François Lamy on the army budget puts forward some annoying figures. We learn that the average technical availability over 12 months of Tiger attack helicopters is only 24%, while the average age of the aircraft in stock is 6 years. That of the NH-90 Cayman, which entered service 2 years ago, is 35%. For the Cougar (25 years old on average), it is only 21%.

In total, the technical availability of the 303 ALAT helicopters is 38%, with an average age of 25 years. The average is raised by the Gazelle (46%) and the Fennec (46%). And the 70 Puma helicopters that have been in service for 42 years show an availability of 30%.

How did this come about? First of all, one of the causes is the intense operational activity of ALAT, which uses machines in difficult environments, such as in the Sahel for example.

"Sunlight can cause the helicopter's canopies to crack; driving on laterite runways with stones can cause shocks; the air-conditioning of aircraft such as the Tiger helicopter can fail, which is all the more disabling because it is used to refresh the on-board computer components and because spare parts are rare and subject to stringent European standardisation, etc.", notes Mr Lamy.

Another reason is that the financial effort made for Scheduled Equipment Maintenance (SAM) is "just enough". But the causes are much deeper still and are linked to the complexity of the chain that ensures the maintenance of these helicopters in operational condition (OCM). The MP identifies at least ten of them.

One of them is the "cumbersome nature of the contractual arrangements underlying the aeronautical OCM system", with certain contracts being "badly drafted". The ALAT commander, General Michel Grintchenko, explained that "although on the surface we have a single contract, in reality there is a multiplicity of people in charge and they pass the responsibility on to each other. "For Philippe Coq, in charge of public affairs at Airbus, the fault lies with the armed forces, which "perhaps underestimated the complexity of the helicopter issue", Mr Lamy said.

However, according to the Rapporteur, industry, whether public or private, was not to be outdone. "A major bottleneck in the helicopter maintenance circuit is at the level of industrial support (NSI)", he noted. Thus, the duration of the aircraft's immobilisation is much longer than expected (383 days instead of 183 for the Tiger, 18 months instead of 90 days for the Cougar...).

Here, Airbus Helicopter admits its responsibility by mentioning "endogenous problems that it is up to it to solve". This is what it has started to do for the maintenance of the Tiger, for which the duration of periodic visits has been reduced from 30 to 42%.
"By nature, a private operator pursues profitability objectives that do not necessarily meet the interests of the armed forces, whose budgets for scheduled maintenance of the equipment are constrained," said Mr. Lamy, who has also expressed reservations about the productivity of the Aeronautics Industrial Service (SIAé), which is a public player. Thus, a Tiger can spend 10 months in the workshops of the latter instead of 6...

Another problem identified by the MP is that the "means of maintenance" of the ALAT units are "undersized in relation to the intensity of external commitments. "And this is amplified by the difficulties in retaining the most experienced mechanics, attracted by the more attractive prospects offered by the private sector.
Furthermore, as General Grintchenko explains, "the intensity of OPEX commitments contributes to increasing the workload of the ALAT workshops" and "the pace of the rotations is such that to continuously commit some 30 helicopters to OPEX, it is necessary to have about 90 aircraft. "However, he adds, "their rotations create a significant workload for their packaging, transport and maintenance on their return from OPEX. Even if this workload does not translate into flight hours consumed, it does place a heavy burden on the workshops. »

Moreover, according to General Grintchenko, the commissioning of latest-generation helicopters, such as the Cayman, "connected to the industrial sector almost in real time", presupposes "computer networks, computer specialists and all other 'back office' skills that ALAT no longer possesses since they were pooled" at joint level.

Finally, the low availability of ALAT's helicopters can also be explained by a clearly insufficient supply of spare parts, in particular due to "under-calibrated" contracts in relation to actual needs. "We are paying the debts of the years of the 'peace dividend'," deplored General Grintchenko.

However, in order to remedy the urgent lack of spare parts, other aircraft are being "cannibalized". In other words, to make a helicopter fly, parts are taken from other helicopters. And this gives rise to an additional workload when the latter arrive at the manufacturer's to be repaired.

La faible disponibilité des hélicoptères de l'armée de Terre induit une "perte sèche de potentiel opérationnel" | Zone Militaire

The low availability of army helicopters leads to a "dry loss of operational potential".

"A Tiger flight calms the spirits," it is now said in the Central African Republic, where two such aircraft were deployed as part of Operation Sangaris. And this illustrates the fact that this attack helicopter is essential for land operations.

"It's a great tool. It's certainly a capricious 'dancer', but don't take it away from us," says General Michel Grintchenko, head of the Army's Light Aviation (ALAT). In Afghanistan, this aircraft has made it possible to "actively protect convoys, sometimes engaging in violent combat with the Taliban, who would have liked to make us replay the RC4 scenario in the Indochina war," he recalls.

Yes, but the Tiger's technical availability rate in terms of equipment does not even reach 25% over 12 months... And, obviously, this poses major operational challenges, with, as François Lamy, MP, draftsman of the opinion on the credits allocated to the Army, points out, "the effects of loops unfavourable to the maintenance of the pilots' skills".

But this does not only concern the Tiger crews... Those of other types of helicopters are also affected by the low availability of ALAT aircraft, which is largely due to the complexity of the operational readiness chain (OCM), the pace of operations and the lack of maintenance personnel in the regiments.

The mechanics are simple: as the average availability rate of ALAT helicopters is only 38%, there is a lack of aircraft to provide pilot training and instruction, especially as the machines in flight condition are used primarily for external operations (OPEX).

Thus, the 5th Combat Helicopter Regiment (RHC) was only able to "consume" 455.3 flight hours between 1 January and 31 August instead of the 984 hours that had been planned.

According to NATO standards, pilots must each complete a minimum of 180 hours of training flights per year. This threshold is raised to 200 hours for special forces pilots. However, as Mr. Lamy points out, "the number of flying hours available, given the low availability of helicopters, is not yet sufficient to reach the level of training required for specialised pilots in the new generation fleets (Tiger and Cayman). »

He added: "These volumes are insufficient to allow all Army helicopter pilots to train enough to be fit for OPEX. In order to be 'projectable' in OPEX, pilots are subject to regulatory conditions of aptitude that require them to have flown at least 140 hours over 12 months for conventional forces and 200 to 220 hours in special forces. »

However, according to the report, between 25% and 33% of the pilots of one of the regiments most in demand for OPEX "do not even fly 140 hours in 12 months. »

This situation has several consequences. The first is that ALAT, which is thus struggling to renew its skills, is faced with a problem known as "human regeneration", which is further aggravated by the departure of a "generation of experienced drivers". »

According to Mr. Lamy, the ALAT is thus forced to "a very fine management of human resources", which consists in "identifying one by one the pilots called to be hired in OPEX 8 months later, and to concentrate on them the flight hours available in metropolitan France. "As for the other pilots, in principle the youngest, they have to "wait and see" by making do with "substitute flight hours".

And, in the end, the tendency is to "project more or less always the same pilots in OPEX", as is the case in the 5th RHC. But sometimes crews who have not completed the required minimum number of training hours are sent on operations.

This, Mr Lamy adds, "leads forces to complete their training directly in theatre", which, in his view, results in a "dry loss of operational capability for helicopter detachments in theatres of operation, because the duration of this additional training is directly attributable to the projection time of the personnel concerned. »

Moreover, the insufficient level of training of these crews "necessarily translates into risk taking in OPEX. »

To remedy this situation, ALAT has recourse to a few "expedients", such as the use of simulators. However, as the Rapporteur observes, this can only be a complementary and not a palliative measure, given that "real flight remains indispensable".

Another solution would be to call on the private sector, by leasing AS332 Pumas and EC-120 Colibri aircraft from Hélicoptères de France. "But this "allows some training, but not all". For information, the rental of a civil Cougar costs 10,000 euros per flight hour, including maintenance.

Finally, another practice aims to share helicopters in flying condition between regiments. This is how the Cougars and Tigers of the 5th RHC and the 4th Special Forces Helicopter Regiment (RHFS) were pooled according to a "platform logic".

I'm sure if my Spanish did amount to more than "Chupe mis huevos senorita, mientras acaricio tus tetas" I would certainly find corresponding reports.

Thank you and have a nice day.

I am not sure at all quoting a 5 year old article will be sufficient Mr Reserve NCO.

The situation described there is no longer valid even though some improvement remain necessary.

It was caused by years of underfunding and mechanics retention issues.

But nice try anyway and l am glad your inferiority complex made you conduct all that research leading to obsolete and irrelevant conclusions.

LYB55p.jpg
 

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