Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Australian Defense Force selects Boeing AH-64E Guardian to replace the Tiger

Actually the Soviets developed the doctrine of 'Deep Battle' in the thirties, the same time the Germans were developing Blitzekrieg. The problem was that Uncle Joe had most of the Generals who developed it shot in the great terror in the late thirties.

When the Germans invaded in 1941 most Soviet commanders were terrified of making a decision without referering it to Stalin by which point it was too late to break out of any encirclement.
Sortof.
Deep battle was effectively killed off before the purge, not least because the military simply could not actually implement the doctrine with the equipment and training standards that they had at the time. Tukhachevsky and Yegorov were coming up with great strategic ideas to the point that it was accepted as official doctrine in the 1930s, but when Sediakin took a long hard look at how to actually implement it (a two-year analysis), he realised it was impossible. It was a wonderful ideal, unachievable in practice, so doctrine had to revert back to the pre Deep battle concepts. That proponents like Tukhachevsky got purged certainly didn't help matters, but the star for deep battle had already faded. Deep battle wouldn't really be feasible on the level of equipment, let alone training, until after the Germans invaded.
 
I don't want to go off on a tangent but in that case what is going to happen with the new Australian Submarines using your excellent case study.

Take an existing design for a Nuclear Hunter Killer boat and rebuild it as a conventional diesel powered one?

The Difference there though is

1) Its not a conversion / modfication of an existing hull - its a (new build) conventional design based upon a Nuclear design - so no chopping and changing stuff around and no integration nightmare of a mix of sensor suites from origional.

2) the design work is being carried out by the same people who designed the origional -


Power plant aside - Its more akin to the Canada / Oz /UK Type 26 with RN T26 providing a baseline hull
 
I get the impression the Ozzies did something of a "Canadian" momement ie get something thats fully functional* and proven design (Upholders) then decide you want to rip out some vzery significant systems and install a replacement system that wasnt designed to work with the remaining systems nor they it. At which point it all goes a bite Pete Tong and recriminations abound and the basic design suddenly gets slated for what was really an overly ambitious / badly understood design integration on the modification side.


I wouldnt look to closely at German issues and conclude its shite, you could easily be convinced Typhoon is shite because of all the Issues the Luftwaffe have - yet other operators have no such issues - it seems a lot of German woes are budget and political interferance inflicted.

Edit lest this bring about another spate of handbagging an example closer to home would be the Chinook fiasco
Take Chinook - Upgrade Chinook - realise new Avionics isnt going to meet the requirements introduce a number of non acceptable work arounds - Modify / remodify / demodify (choose prefferred term) to the origional Boeing standard - then upgrade in line with everything else

*Ok there were issues with laid up before shakedown cruise was completed and the fact they were laid up for a long time - but they relate to maintenance and build issues not design - AIUI

You would they would learn, instead we bought a nuclear submarine to be fitted with a Diesel engine, what can possibly go wrong?
 
the engines are not actually certified for use in Mali due to their parameters, it simply is to hot there.

Only on Cherman thermometers. This then leads to "sorry, we can't fight, but only for technical reasons you know". Cherman risk adversness at its best.

Funnily enough, French Tigre fly and fight in the whole region on a daily basis.

tigre-20140730.jpg
 
Possibly Welsh or Scots, I neither know or care, both of them tend to get a tad narked if you call them English, same goes for the Irish of both types. Accusing him of being French is a low blow!
I think he is Scots. My mous hovered over his Username and the Town name did ring a bell. I decided to prod him a bit, he didn't bite at Nac Mac Feegle, but calling him English was a neat little barrage.

Disclaimer:
Before this erupts in a new battle, I know that this was cvntish, I honestly apologise for everything and especially for insulting you in calling you French.
 
Only on Cherman thermometers. This then leads to "sorry, we can't fight, but only for technical reasons you know". Cherman risk adversness at its best.

Funnily enough, French Tigre fly and fight in the whole region on a daily basis.

View attachment 540405
Are you really that daft? The safe operating parameters are specified by the manufacturer, not by a French whim.
 
Instead of insults, why can't you give a rational explanation ? Why are French Tigre flying and fighting while Cherman ones aren't ?

View attachment 540422
You are really want a rational explanation? You will get it, not right now but in the evening? How good is your German? The subject is very hard reading in places and I am not the world's best translator. Well there is always, Google or Deepl, they'll have to do. I have to look up some documents from Wehrtechnische Dienststelle für Luftfahrzeuge and the one or other comment from people who were directly involved with the issue in the Augen geradeaus! Blog from T.Wiegold
 
Last edited:
Actually the Soviets developed the doctrine of 'Deep Battle' in the thirties, the same time the Germans were developing Blitzekrieg. The problem was that Uncle Joe had most of the Generals who developed it shot in the great terror in the late thirties.

When the Germans invaded in 1941 most Soviet commanders were terrified of making a decision without referering it to Stalin by which point it was too late to break out of any encirclement.

indeed, Tukschevsky, and as he’d been shot by Stalin, everyone stood fast with the new doctrine under the orders of ideologically sound, but incredibly dense people like Byudenny, Until Zukhov and others hard as nails avd not over scared of Uncle Joe took the field.
 
You are really want a rational explanation? You will get it, not right now but in the evening? How good is your German? The subject is very hard reading in places and I am not the world's best translator. Well there is always, Google or Deepl, they'll have to do. I have to look up some documents from Wehrtechnische Dienststelle für Luftfahrzeuge and the one or other comment from people who were directly involved with the issue in the Augen geradeaus! Blog from T.Wiegold

In a nutshell, they are feart
 

Cromarty

Old-Salt
And I forgot the MRTT...

FYI, your government does not share your aversion to France. It has sent us LOs and plenty of requests for cooperation for the past 10 years as it has understood that French forces, not SOCOMD, is the life insurance of australian expats in Africa

And whose helicopters are you getting around Africa in? Who made them?
 

Latest Threads

Top