Australian Defense Force selects Boeing AH-64E Guardian to replace the Tiger

[oldsoak]

Its using AIP I thought ?
Really think this is an area where fuel cells tech like the Germans have is a better established technology.
Could be well wrong.

 

[tiger stacker]

You forget one thing Nac Mac Feegle, not only the bratwurst biter says it is shite, the Australians also say it is shite. They want to get rid of it faster than a kangaroo gets smashed by a road train, so I dare say it isn't down to German ineptitude.
Maybe you should engage elimate and eradicate your shite approach to me, just because I handle your French friend a bit rough, the problems with the Tiger are there and neither he nor you can discuss them away.
I really have no quarrel with you, and I even don't want to quarrel with you because I really don't give a shite about you, just do me a favour and don't bore me.

Hey I apologise for insulting a member of the master race, I’ll back off and leave the frog to you.
If you can prove that Germans actually won a war...

 

[Cold_Collation]

Good idea but only a small one.
After all Un ouef is enough

Cracking riposte.

 

[par avion]

Hey I apologise for insulting a member of the master race, I’ll back off and leave the frog to you.
If you can prove that Germans actually won a war...

Then why did the British and US high command start studying German operations in the Soviet Union and Normandy as the basis for the Air/Land battle and adopt 'mission command' direct from Wehrmacht examples in WW2. Also the Leopard was the best selling western tank since WW2 with its reputation based on the efficiency of the panzers from that era.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Then why did the British and US high command start studying German operations in the Soviet Union and Normandy as the basis for the Air/Land battle and adopt 'mission command' direct from Wehrmacht examples in WW2. Also the Leopard was the best selling western tank since WW2 with its reputation based on the efficiency of the panzers from that era.

Leopard sold because it was inexpensive. Leopard 1 versus Chieftain? No. Leopard 1 wouldn't stand up to being hit by much.

Efficiency of panzers? Panther, Tiger and Elefant were renowned for mechanical unreliability. Lots of M-kills inflicted by themselves upon themselves.

 

[Graculus]

I get the impression the Ozzies did something of a "Canadian" momement ie get something thats fully functional* and proven design (Upholders) then decide you want to rip out some vzery significant systems and install a replacement system that wasnt designed to work with the remaining systems nor they it. At which point it all goes a bite Pete Tong and recriminations abound and the basic design suddenly gets slated for what was really an overly ambitious / badly understood design integration on the modification side.

Somnething they have form for doing, as much as us. Local politics over procurement.

I wouldnt look to closely at German issues and conclude its shite, you could easily be convinced Typhoon is shite because of all the Issues the Luftwaffe have - yet other operators have no such issues - it seems a lot of German woes are budget and political interferance inflicted.

Yup again, Boxheids under procure spares support masively. They also have their eye on the EU defence market but ourselves, the spams and the froggies keep on getting it right up them. If they'd had the decency to have a wobbly and feck off pdq on Eurofighter, along with the froggies, we'd have had it in service much quicker.

Edit lest this bring about another spate of handbagging an example closer to home would be the Chinook fiasco
Take Chinook - Upgrade Chinook - realise new Avionics isnt going to meet the requirements introduce a number of non acceptable work arounds - Modify / remodify / demodify (choose prefferred term) to the origional Boeing standard - then upgrade in line with everything else

*Ok there were issues with laid up before shakedown cruise was completed and the fact they were laid up for a long time - but they relate to maintenance and build issues not design - AIUI

Chinook upgrade a feckin' train crash.

 

[fantassin]

Then why did the British and US high command start studying German operations in the Soviet Union and Normandy as the basis for the Air/Land battle and adopt 'mission command' direct from Wehrmacht examples in WW2. Also the Leopard was the best selling western tank since WW2 with its reputation based on the efficiency of the panzers from that era.

The one and only time Leopard 2 went to war it ended up in tears.

Oh, sorry, there was also that majot victory in Kosovo when a Cherman Leo 2 shot up a drunk Serb in a Zastava sedan.

We were all well impressed at the time at that display of military courage but alas it did not last.

 

[PhotEx]

Then why did the British and US high command start studying German operations in the Soviet Union and Normandy as the basis for the Air/Land battle and adopt 'mission command' direct from Wehrmacht examples in WW2. Also the Leopard was the best selling western tank since WW2 with its reputation based on the efficiency of the panzers from that era.

after a brief dalliance with German ideas, (German generals told lots of we only lost because they cheated porkies) we moved to a doctrine based on Deep Battle, the doctrine the Russians used in late WWII.

 

[PhotEx]

So...

how many Tigres have Airbus sold since 2010?

 

[tiger stacker]

You do know, Canada sent tanks abroad

The Leopard changes (some) of its spots | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

 

[fantassin]

You do know, Canada sent tanks abroad

The Leopard changes (some) of its spots | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

True but no armour threat . But true nevertheless, just like Danes did in Bosnia, showing that 105 mm cannon and blue helmets were compatible....

 

[Krautman]

Hey I apologise for insulting a member of the master race, I’ll back off and leave the frog to you.
If you can prove that Germans actually won a war...

Alltough my faeces smell like roses, there is no Masterrace here, you should know that. You English always wnat proof. We won 1866 and 1870/71 will that be enough?

 

[tiger stacker]

Alltough my faeces smell like roses, there is no Masterrace here, you should know that. You English always wnat proof. We won 1866 and 1870/71 will that be enough?

Am not English, you swallower of frogspunk.
Is it possible the heer lacked fiscal support for their fleet

 

[Krautman]

The one and only time Leopard 2 went to war it ended up in tears.View attachment 540375View attachment 540376

Oh, sorry, there was also that majot victory in Kosovo when a Cherman Leo 2 shot up a drunk Serb in a Zastava sedan.

We were all well impressed at the time at that display of military courage but alas it did not last.

Oh, this are old Leopard 2A4 probably only slightly modified and at the level of the early 90s.from the Turkish Army, they lost around 8 or 10 in Syria. Five against ATGM like AT-7 and AT-5, one by artillery, the others against mines or IED's. After that the Turks bombed the wrecks to smithereens.
The actual Version of the Leopard 2 is what 2A6M? 2A7+? 2SG? Well one of the loaned Canadian 2A6M was hit by an IED in Kandahar back in 2010 and it and it's crew survived.

And as usual you are wrong or tell outright lies.
The Leopard in Prizren didn't fire a shot. The crew found it appropriate to leave their vehicle, take a stroll, impress some girls, get some coffee, all the things you do in a freshly secured city.
So it was down to G-36, MG3 and P8. After the smoke cleared they were somewhat in the shit, because their betters weren't exactly amused or enthusiastic.
I knew one of the crew and he told me that he was, because of the lovingly whispered words, hearing impaired for several days.
The Zastava as far as I know was a Lada.

 

[Krautman]

Am not English, you swallower of frogspunk.
Is it possible the heer lacked fiscal support for their fleet

Why wouldn't you be English? Are you sure? You sound English. Are you French by any means?

Edit:
To be more serious, I would gladly say it is down to underfunding. We all know that is one of the problems the Bundeswehr faces.
But quality problems aren't a problem of funding. There was the really big issue with the cabling, problems with the transmission and engines in a hot/high situation (mostly adressed by ASGARD-F) and the fact that (again)
the engines are not actually certified for use in Mali due to their parameters, it simply is to hot there.
The Bundeswehr had the glorious idea of adding 5 degrees on top and granting an exemption, which led to increased joy among all involved because of the reduced safety margin.

 

[par avion]

after a brief dalliance with German ideas, (German generals told lots of we only lost because they cheated porkies) we moved to a doctrine based on Deep Battle, the doctrine the Russians used in late WWII.

Actually the Soviets developed the doctrine of 'Deep Battle' in the thirties, the same time the Germans were developing Blitzekrieg. The problem was that Uncle Joe had most of the Generals who developed it shot in the great terror in the late thirties.

When the Germans invaded in 1941 most Soviet commanders were terrified of making a decision without referering it to Stalin by which point it was too late to break out of any encirclement.

 

[Tyk]

Why wouldn't you be English? Are you sure? You sound English. Are you French by any means?

Edit:
To be more serious, I would gladly say it is down to underfunding. We all know that is one of the problems the Bundeswehr faces.
But quality problems aren't a problem of funding. There was the really big issue with the cabling, problems with the transmission and engines in a hot/high situation (mostly adressed by ASGARD-F) and the fact that (again)
the engines are not actually certified for use in Mali due to their parameters, it simply is to hot there.
The Bundeswehr had the glorious idea of adding 5 degrees on top and granting an exemption, which led to increased joy among all involved because of the reduced safety margin.

Possibly Welsh or Scots, I neither know or care, both of them tend to get a tad narked if you call them English, same goes for the Irish of both types. Accusing him of being French is a low blow!

 

[Roadster280]

I’m out of my depth on the subject here, so I offer no opinion. However, I must commend both @fantassin and @Krautman on their English. Personally, I could read a newspaper in either language and understand what’s going on in the world, but most certainly could not frame a coherent “you are a cvnt” argument in either language.

Well done chaps, leave to carry on....

 

[par avion]

Oh, this are old Leopard 2A4 probably only slightly modified and at the level of the early 90s.from the Turkish Army, they lost around 8 or 10 in Syria. Five against ATGM like AT-7 and AT-5, one by artillery, the others against mines or IED's. After that the Turks bombed the wrecks to smithereens.
The actual Version of the Leopard 2 is what 2A6M? 2A7+? 2SG? Well one of the loaned Canadian 2A6M was hit by an IED in Kandahar back in 2010 and it and it's crew survived.

And as usual you are wrong or tell outright lies.
The Leopard in Prizren didn't fire a shot. The crew found it appropriate to leave their vehicle, take a stroll, impress some girls, get some coffee, all the things you do in a freshly secured city.
So it was down to G-36, MG3 and P8. After the smoke cleared they were somewhat in the shit, because their betters weren't exactly amused or enthusiastic.
I knew one of the crew and he told me that he was, because of the lovingly whispered words, hearing impaired for several days.
The Zastava as far as I know was a Lada.

I think you are referring to this incident.

 

[par avion]

Possibly Welsh or Scots, I neither know or care, both of them tend to get a tad narked if you call them English, same goes for the Irish of both types. Accusing him of being French is a low blow!

To Germany and most of the rest of the world, England, Great Britain and the UK all mean the same thing. Most Germans have vaguely heard of Scotland through that awful wailing noise they make on their dudelsacks, but think it is part of England.

Its a bit like in the Cold war for us everyone in the Soviet Union was Russian.