Australia will allow women to serve in frontline combat - NY Times Article

#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/w...ow-women-to-serve-in-frontline-combat.html?hp

NYTimes, 27 Sep 11.

"The announcement by Defense Minister Stephen Smith that the last positions that had remained closed to female soldiers — including the Special Forces, infantry and some army artillery roles — would be opened, marks the biggest shakeup of the country’s armed forces in more than a decade and comes on the heels of a series of embarrassing scandals for the Australian Defense Force. "
 
#2
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/w...ow-women-to-serve-in-frontline-combat.html?hp

NYTimes, 27 Sep 11.

"The announcement by Defense Minister Stephen Smith that the last positions that had remained closed to female soldiers — including the Special Forces, infantry and some army artillery roles — would be opened, marks the biggest shakeup of the country’s armed forces in more than a decade and comes on the heels of a series of embarrassing scandals for the Australian Defense Force. "
From the link
“In the future, your role in the defense force will be determined on your ability, not on the basis of your sex.”
Now theres a novel idea, wonder if it will ever catch on here?
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Oh Gods not this again. This was done to death a couple of years ago.

(By which I mean the subject matter rather than Oz's new policy upon it)
 
#4
If & when this ever happens in HMF's, my 1st question is will women be called up on mass to fight alongside the men as per WW1 & 2.
My 2nd Question would be how would the vast majority of Britain,s Female population react to such a prospect?
 
#5
Maybe the british army will do the same when there have been half a dozen sex scandals at Sandhurst.
 
#6
Maybe the british army will do the same when there have been half a dozen sex scandals at Sandhurst.
I think they are on double figures at least at the moment.
 
#7
It's the basic of instincts, man + woman = SEX in the normal run of life & work that is not a big problem, however in a profession where people are put into extreme situations ie WAR/CONFLICT, then it can become a big problem.
 
#8
It's the basic of instincts, man + woman = SEX in the normal run of life & work that is not a big problem, however in a profession where people are put into extreme situations ie WAR/CONFLICT, then it can become a big problem.
Don't forget what happens when you put a bunch of ******* bummers together in [a trench/the bush/the desert/a ship/a five star hotel (RAF)] (delete as appropriate).
 
#9
It doesnt matter how good a soldier a woman is, if she cant carry the kit required to complete the task in whatever role she is in, be that carrying everything she needs to survive for things such as the Special Forces, or loading shells into big guns as per the Artillery, then she becomes a burden and a liability on the rest of the troops around her. No amount of political debating will alter this fact. However if they can pass the courses (without them being watered down) and do the job, then good luck to them.
 
#10
Women in the workplace have move into areas not so many years ago people thought impossible. Having been out the mob now 11 years I have little idea how females are getting on with the job, all I do know is that some women have proved themselves the equal of the men, winning the confidence of the male soldiers they serve with.
A real test would be to set up all female units, & if there was no problems then the proof is in the pudding as they say.
 
#13
It's not just about whether a woman can carry the kit or not. Having women in a formerly all-male environment filled with agressive personalities forged into a fighting force by a system developed and refined, under fire, over centuries causes divisions, resentment, breakdown of cohesion and loss of morale and effectiveness.

That it is foisted upon the ADF by politicians, as always, turns my stomach.

That it has happened in wartime is somewhat surprising. Obviously that poorly-bred, double-chinned, back-stabbing, welsh ginger we have running the country needs something to distract the public from her boat people, carbon taxes and her leadership woes.
 
#14
It's not just about whether a woman can carry the kit or not. Having women in a formerly all-male environment filled with agressive personalities forged into a fighting force by a system developed and refined, under fire, over centuries causes divisions, resentment, breakdown of cohesion and loss of morale and effectiveness.

That it is foisted upon the ADF by politicians, as always, turns my stomach.

That it has happened in wartime is somewhat surprising. Obviously that poorly-bred, double-chinned, back-stabbing, welsh ginger we have running the country needs something to distract the public from her boat people, carbon taxes and her leadership woes.
I agree in principle to what you say, but the fact is that women are fighting alongside the men in all 3 services, & I have not heard anything to say they are not producing the goods (militarily speaking).
 
#15
I don't think the issue is whether women can carry kit, do just as goood a job as a bloke etc. More importantly, the last thing I want to be doing when watching where I'm putting my feet in Afghan is to be getting distracted and thinking "I'd **** the arse off that". Women are a distraction for any man no matter how focused, and that's just the bare basics of it. The two sexes, generally speaking, function entirely differently psychologically, physically, emotionally. I don't think it's a good thing at all, and you only have to look at the public outcry when a female soldier is killed to see it would not be a popular decision in HMF.
 
#16
Dont fully agree with you there, there are cases of female medics accompanying the men in Afghan, and i have not heard anything other than good things coming of it. when under fire they are as equally professional and brave as the men. As i said before, if they are capable of doing the job without having to be carried by others, then its all good.
 
#17
RIGHT HERE WE GO. After being down under for almost three years it never ceases to amaze me how shit the politicains are down here when it comes to understanding the armed forces or anything else for that matter.

First of all women all ready are on "the front line" despite the fact there are no real front lines anymore. As soon as the patrol leaves base EVERYONE no matter what gender or role is expected to fight.

The problem is with women in the Infantry and SF, with most roles in the Cavalry and Arty there is no issue. The quandry is simply biomechanical, women are not as strong as men, they are as psychologically tough if not more, and can take pain even more (child birth anyone?) but if a government states that there HAS to be full sexual equality down the line in all arms then in the Infantry you lose flexibilty and capability that you might have over a potential enemy..... end of argument (as misogynistic as it sounds sadly). For those in the know, the infantry have that unique battlefield task of gaining then holding the ground by killing the enemy, sometimes in an up close and personal way and where in some cases the stronger prevail.

Sorry diggers not trying to troll here but I've got to say this, the ADF is an overly civiliansed force with a highly restricted depolyment to Afghanistan. It over uses its SF in small scale operations that the regular infantry could do. But worse than that a it has a crap govrnement in charge of it. Dont get me wrong my former lot were not perfect by long way, but this latest gem from Steven Smith is just adding to the problem.
 
#18
I suspect that the arse kissing careerists at Russell are equally to blame for not being able to control their minister.
 
#19
This has been sold as a case of 'opportunity' and a way of widening the pool of people who can be selected. There are fitness tests on the way that will be tailored to each employment category (still being developed). There will undoubtedly be chicks who can pass those tests.

The cultural changes required are mentioned as part of the process, something to work through, etc. Horse hooey! Changing the culture is the reason they are doing this. If capability takes a holiday in the meantime then too bad. Makes my blood boil.

I have no problems with wimminz wearing any hat badge as long as they meet the standards. Women in RAInf? No worries - just don't stick them into sections or bricks. Pl sig? Secco running the SFMGs in the new Inf 2012 structure? Commanding a wagon in a Cav troop? That can work. A muscle-bound big rig as a gun-number? Might be feasible. Clearance diver? Why not?

But can you imagine the sh1t storm that will erupt the first time a chick gets spit-roasted by 3 or 4 of the blokes in her section after they've all been out on the turps on a Saturday night? The seccos and Pl Comds in RAInf are in for a torrid time when this thing gets running. Testosterone - driven cranky aggressive young Inf diggers with a pillaging mindset obliged to welcome 21 year old girls into their closest circle? This is going to go horribly wrong for someone, and I hope the young thrusters going Inf will be prepared for it. I doubt it - some young LT and his Pl Sgt will get hanged the first time it turns to custard.

Caveat - half my diggers are women and mostly they're friggin excellent. But I'm a pogue, not a bayonet-pusher.
 

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