Australia on fire

I want to start a thread dedicated to the fires in Australia and not a footnote in Redshits thread on AuStralia as a whole.

I am sure people have seen the footprint of the fires against the map of Britain:



Various others exist.

There are a couple of points I would like to make in this environmental disaster:

1. It is being hijacked by 'celebrities' some who are making great donations but blaming climate change.

My point is climate change is very subjective, I personally do not believe these fires have anything to do with climate change (nor do I beleive in it as a man made thing), these fires are always happening, there have been many more deadly in the past.

If they want to donate to the RFS it is great, but please dont bring climate change into this.

2. I was lead to believe that there was a "green" agenda to stop Back Burning, I now believe this is untrue. First, the Green Parties have never been in power so cannot force any agenda. This disaster has nothing to do with the Greens.

In my opinion, drought in Australia is like famine and flood, I was in South Australia when they were in drought, they built a huge Desalination Plant, the year it was commissioned the drought broke and it has never been turned on!

In the last few years we have had very little rainfall in AUS so the forests (or bush) has been doing what it does to stay alive, it sheds outer bark, branches, leaves, sheds everything just so it can keep a small core of moisture to keep it alive for when the rain comes again, it has done this forever.

The RFS used to slow burn parcels of land, inbetween fire breaks, this gave animals a chance to move, it didnt bother Koala as they were ground burns which didnt touch the tree tops. The next year they burn the next parcel and the animals move back.

I dont know what happened to the RFS burns, but these fires are now lethal, the amount of fuel on the ground is mental and the speed these fires travel and height is killing everything.

Shouting Climate Change, IMO, is insincere and points to a larger political platform that cannot be resolved in Australia (China/India building more Coal Fired Power Stations than in history). It thereby takes away from the issue and the men and women fighting these fires.

The answer is to fund the RFS, encourage volunteers with tax breaks and perhaps a payment retainer, buy helicopters and fire fighting aircraft that will be used in the winter to assist burning off fuel on the ground in controlled packages and in the summer to quickly put out smaller fire before they become large. They are saying that due to the drought the bush was/is too dangerous to back burn and it happened suddenly.

I think I heard the joke prime minister gave a AUD$2bn package available? Imagine what that over 5 years previous could do to prevent this.

Final point, there is talk of these fires resulting in species extinction. That is unacceptable if true and the arsonists who started some of the fires should face life in prison. I hears today 7 fires were started by an RFS person who wanted to be a hero!
 
I want to start a thread dedicated to the fires in Australia and not a footnote in Redshits thread on AuStralia as a whole.

I am sure people have seen the footprint of the fires against the map of Britain:



Various others exist.

There are a couple of points I would like to make in this environmental disaster:

1. It is being hijacked by 'celebrities' some who are making great donations but blaming climate change.

My point is climate change is very subjective, I personally do not believe these fires have anything to do with climate change (nor do I beleive in it as a man made thing), these fires are always happening, there have been many more deadly in the past.

If they want to donate to the RFS it is great, but please dont bring climate change into this.

2. I was lead to believe that there was a "green" agenda to stop Back Burning, I now believe this is untrue. First, the Green Parties have never been in power so cannot force any agenda. This disaster has nothing to do with the Greens.

In my opinion, drought in Australia is like famine and flood, I was in South Australia when they were in drought, they built a huge Desalination Plant, the year it was commissioned the drought broke and it has never been turned on!

In the last few years we have had very little rainfall in AUS so the forests (or bush) has been doing what it does to stay alive, it sheds outer bark, branches, leaves, sheds everything just so it can keep a small core of moisture to keep it alive for when the rain comes again, it has done this forever.

The RFS used to slow burn parcels of land, inbetween fire breaks, this gave animals a chance to move, it didnt bother Koala as they were ground burns which didnt touch the tree tops. The next year they burn the next parcel and the animals move back.

I dont know what happened to the RFS burns, but these fires are now lethal, the amount of fuel on the ground is mental and the speed these fires travel and height is killing everything.

Shouting Climate Change, IMO, is insincere and points to a larger political platform that cannot be resolved in Australia (China/India building more Coal Fired Power Stations than in history). It thereby takes away from the issue and the men and women fighting these fires.

The answer is to fund the RFS, encourage volunteers with tax breaks and perhaps a payment retainer, buy helicopters and fire fighting aircraft that will be used in the winter to assist burning off fuel on the ground in controlled packages and in the summer to quickly put out smaller fire before they become large. They are saying that due to the drought the bush was/is too dangerous to back burn and it happened suddenly.

I think I heard the joke prime minister gave a AUD$2bn package available? Imagine what that over 5 years previous could do to prevent this.

Final point, there is talk of these fires resulting in species extinction. That is unacceptable if true and the arsonists who started some of the fires should face life in prison. I hears today 7 fires were started by an RFS person who wanted to be a hero!
Nothing is ever as simple as the media suggest.... For instance, isn't australia big cities expensive to live in. Whereas somewhere cheaper 50 miles up/down the coast is a lot cheaper. So you have more humans inhabiting an area that is lacking in the infrastructure to deal with the problems that flow from humanity.

My personal view is most climate change, proof on the ground. Is simply human activity having an impact. The climate is immaterial, if you build on a flood plain, plug a new town into an existing infrastructure, or a population that is simply less resiliant than its forefathers.
 
The elephant in the room is always too many humans on this planet consuming limited natural resources

Reduce the human population to sustainable levels and a lot of the problem goes away

The easiest and most effective way to control population levels is education and rising living standards

So encourage education and go all out to reduce people's belief in religion and socialism and we can reduce the worlds population without taking more drastic measures
 
Nothing is ever as simple as the media suggest.... For instance, isn't australia big cities expensive to live in. Whereas somewhere cheaper 50 miles up/down the coast is a lot cheaper. So you have more humans inhabiting an area that is lacking in the infrastructure to deal with the problems that flow from humanity.

My personal view is most climate change, proof on the ground. Is simply human activity having an impact. The climate is immaterial, if you build on a flood plain, plug a new town into an existing infrastructure, or a population that is simply less resiliant than its forefathers.
It's no different to the UK, some people want to live in the city, some want to live in small beachside towns, some want to live in country (bush). I live about 100 miles from Sydney and we are still affected by them wanting to buy holiday homes etc.

The human activity is a small impact, the dams are empty, if they were 100% full at the end of winter we woulnt be in drought, its not because there are more people using the water, there is no water!

Now I dont believe there is no water due to man made climate change. A few million years ago we were under ice, it has been retreating ever since. The final (what 10??) glaciers are melting, no sh1t, they have been melting since before records began.

There is no rain in Aus because of a weather change in the Indian Ocean (which happens) but the monsoon has broken and by March this year I predict massive rainfall and floods in Australia.

Not because of climate change will we flood. Its because for last 5 years we have ignored rivers, flow ways, drainage....all the things to channel flood water will have been cut from the budget because why spend money improving things not required when in a drought.

Oh wait the drought has broken..."Climate Change!!!!" Sorry you all drowned.
 
The elephant in the room is always too many humans on this planet consuming limited natural resources

Reduce the human population to sustainable levels and a lot of the problem goes away

The easiest and most effective way to control population levels is education and rising living standards

So encourage education and go all out to reduce people's belief in religion and socialism and we can reduce the worlds population without taking more drastic measures
I agree, if I were a "Consultant" to God on this, there is a very obvious, quick win and perhaps a second one.

Obviously God doesn't exist, he tried to work his magic in Ethiopia 25 years ago and Geldoff beat him.
 
It's no different to the UK, some people want to live in the city, some want to live in small beachside towns, some want to live in country (bush). I live about 100 miles from Sydney and we are still affected by them wanting to buy holiday homes etc.

The human activity is a small impact, the dams are empty, if they were 100% full at the end of winter we woulnt be in drought, its not because there are more people using the water, there is no water!

Now I dont believe there is no water due to man made climate change. A few million years ago we were under ice, it has been retreating ever since. The final (what 10??) glaciers are melting, no sh1t, they have been melting since before records began.

There is no rain in Aus because of a weather change in the Indian Ocean (which happens) but the monsoon has broken and by March this year I predict massive rainfall and floods in Australia.

Not because of climate change will we flood. Its because for last 5 years we have ignored rivers, flow ways, drainage....all the things to channel flood water will have been cut from the budget because why spend money improving things not required when in a drought.

Oh wait the drought has broken..."Climate Change!!!!" Sorry you all drowned.
The link between humans and climate change is probably the most obvious cause, as we do tend to dominate the planet somewhat.... The link between events and climate change is more tenous, as humans determine the infrastructure to deal with a drought or deluge and can't control the climate.

We need more Noahs, who warned of a weather event and built an ark (infrastructure). Less voices demanding humans change activity, to somehow turn back the tides. But that change is mandated by a committee of types who simply want to change humans and the climate is a convenient stick to frighten people with.
 

TamtamPWRR

War Hero
Lightning hit this tree in my uncle's paddock yesterday, he's in Kurrajong just east of the Blue Mountains fires. Check out how brown the paddock is.
82141589_2553895781561060_5933888457800679424_n.jpg
 
Stolen from the Web.

SOME RELEVANT HISTORY.

Australia’s most extensive Bushfires were known as the ‘Black Thursday’ Bushfires, on the 6th Feb 1851 when the temperature hit an incredible 117°F (47.2°C) at 11am in Melbourne, and quarter of Victoria, 5 million hectares in total were burnt out (10 times more than from the current Bushfires in NSW). 12 lives were lost and one million sheep and thousands of cattle where lost.

Thomas McCombie recorded the scene in Melbourne on that day:
"For two months preceding, the country had been under the desiccating winds, which appeared to be highly charged with electricity. The herbage was parched up, and everything that the eye could rest upon was dry, dusty, and disagreeable. The 6th of February dawned much as very hot days generally do; the roseate tints of the horizon were rather brighter and more lurid than usual - the glassed glare over the sky more vividly perceptible. The north wind set strongly in early in the morning, and by eleven o'clock in the fore-noon it had increased to almost a hurricane.
‘’In the streets of Melbourne the heat was intense, and the atmosphere densely oppressive. Clouds of smoke and dust hung over the city. The fires which blazed in the surrounding country no doubt increased the suffocating sensation which was generally experienced. It was hardly possible to go abroad; the streets were nearly deserted; and a few of the persons who were compelled to make the effort to traverse them stalked along with their faces closely enveloped in cloth; no man, however bold, appeared able to face the furiously-suffocating blast, which seemed to wither up their physical energies. By noon, the inhabitants, generally, had shut themselves up in their various dwellings, too happy to have got out of the reach of the overpowering blast. They continued to sit until night listening in terror to the howl of this real sirocco. Had any portion of Melbourne ignited the whole of the city must have been reduced to ashes, as no effort of the inhabitants could have prevented the conflagration from extending and becoming general. The citizens were providentially preserved from so terrible a disaster."

Catastrophic Bushfires hit Victoria again in 1898 Feb 1, known as ‘ Red Tuesday’ when fires burned 260,000 hectares in South Gippsland. Twelve lives lost and more than 2,000 buildings were destroyed - 2,500 homeless.
In 1939 the 13th Jan became known as ‘Black Friday’, the fires in Victoria burned 1.5 to 2 million hectares, killed 71 people and destroyed more than 650 buildings.

In 1944 levels fires in the Western Districts of Victoria destroyed more than 500 houses and caused huge losses in the pastoral industry. Four or more grass fires near Hamilton, Dunkeld, Skipton and Lake Bolac burned about 440,000 hectares in eight hours. Between 15 and 20 people died. The total area covered by grass fires that season was about one million hectares.

In 1962, Fires in the Dandenong Ranges and on the outskirts of Melbourne killed 32 and destroyed more than 450 houses.

In 1965, fires the in Gippsland burned for 17 days, covering 300,000 hectares of forest and 15,000 hectares of grassland. More than 60 buildings and 4,000 stock were destroyed.

In 1969,Two hundred and eighty fires broke out on the 8th Jan, Twelve reached major proportions and burned 250,000 hectares. Twenty-three people died, including 17 motorists at Lara, trapped on the then highway between Geelong and Melbourne. The fires also destroyed 230 houses, 21 other buildings and more than 12,000 stock.

In 1977, widespread fires occurred across the Western District of Victoria. The fires killed four people and burned about 103,000 hectares. More than 198,500 stock, 116 houses and 340 other buildings were also lost.
In 1981, the 16th Feb became known as ‘Ash Wednesday’ more than 100 fires burned 210,000 hectares and killed 47 people. More than 27,000 stock and 2,000 houses were lost.

And that’s just Victoria.
 

Fake Sheikh

Old-Salt
Jeremy Clarkson says Australia is on fire as God didn’t want people to live there.
Oh dear The Grand Tour now not going to Aussie, be safer in South America?
 
Stolen from the Web.

SOME RELEVANT HISTORY.

Australia’s most extensive Bushfires were known as the ‘Black Thursday’ Bushfires, on the 6th Feb 1851 when the temperature hit an incredible 117°F (47.2°C) at 11am in Melbourne, and quarter of Victoria, 5 million hectares in total were burnt out (10 times more than from the current Bushfires in NSW). 12 lives were lost and one million sheep and thousands of cattle where lost.

Thomas McCombie recorded the scene in Melbourne on that day:
"For two months preceding, the country had been under the desiccating winds, which appeared to be highly charged with electricity. The herbage was parched up, and everything that the eye could rest upon was dry, dusty, and disagreeable. The 6th of February dawned much as very hot days generally do; the roseate tints of the horizon were rather brighter and more lurid than usual - the glassed glare over the sky more vividly perceptible. The north wind set strongly in early in the morning, and by eleven o'clock in the fore-noon it had increased to almost a hurricane.
‘’In the streets of Melbourne the heat was intense, and the atmosphere densely oppressive. Clouds of smoke and dust hung over the city. The fires which blazed in the surrounding country no doubt increased the suffocating sensation which was generally experienced. It was hardly possible to go abroad; the streets were nearly deserted; and a few of the persons who were compelled to make the effort to traverse them stalked along with their faces closely enveloped in cloth; no man, however bold, appeared able to face the furiously-suffocating blast, which seemed to wither up their physical energies. By noon, the inhabitants, generally, had shut themselves up in their various dwellings, too happy to have got out of the reach of the overpowering blast. They continued to sit until night listening in terror to the howl of this real sirocco. Had any portion of Melbourne ignited the whole of the city must have been reduced to ashes, as no effort of the inhabitants could have prevented the conflagration from extending and becoming general. The citizens were providentially preserved from so terrible a disaster."

Catastrophic Bushfires hit Victoria again in 1898 Feb 1, known as ‘ Red Tuesday’ when fires burned 260,000 hectares in South Gippsland. Twelve lives lost and more than 2,000 buildings were destroyed - 2,500 homeless.
In 1939 the 13th Jan became known as ‘Black Friday’, the fires in Victoria burned 1.5 to 2 million hectares, killed 71 people and destroyed more than 650 buildings.

In 1944 levels fires in the Western Districts of Victoria destroyed more than 500 houses and caused huge losses in the pastoral industry. Four or more grass fires near Hamilton, Dunkeld, Skipton and Lake Bolac burned about 440,000 hectares in eight hours. Between 15 and 20 people died. The total area covered by grass fires that season was about one million hectares.

In 1962, Fires in the Dandenong Ranges and on the outskirts of Melbourne killed 32 and destroyed more than 450 houses.

In 1965, fires the in Gippsland burned for 17 days, covering 300,000 hectares of forest and 15,000 hectares of grassland. More than 60 buildings and 4,000 stock were destroyed.

In 1969,Two hundred and eighty fires broke out on the 8th Jan, Twelve reached major proportions and burned 250,000 hectares. Twenty-three people died, including 17 motorists at Lara, trapped on the then highway between Geelong and Melbourne. The fires also destroyed 230 houses, 21 other buildings and more than 12,000 stock.

In 1977, widespread fires occurred across the Western District of Victoria. The fires killed four people and burned about 103,000 hectares. More than 198,500 stock, 116 houses and 340 other buildings were also lost.
In 1981, the 16th Feb became known as ‘Ash Wednesday’ more than 100 fires burned 210,000 hectares and killed 47 people. More than 27,000 stock and 2,000 houses were lost.

And that’s just Victoria.
And yet, this year is supposedly 'the worst on record'.
 
So encourage education and go all out to reduce people's belief in religion and socialism and we can reduce the worlds population without taking more drastic measures
Be fair. Religion and socialism usually end up producing the more drastic population reduction measures in the end anyway.....
 
Stolen from the Web.

SOME RELEVANT HISTORY.

Australia’s most extensive Bushfires were known as the ‘Black Thursday’ Bushfires, on the 6th Feb 1851 when the temperature hit an incredible 117°F (47.2°C) at 11am in Melbourne, and quarter of Victoria, 5 million hectares in total were burnt out (10 times more than from the current Bushfires in NSW). 12 lives were lost and one million sheep and thousands of cattle where lost.

Thomas McCombie recorded the scene in Melbourne on that day:
"For two months preceding, the country had been under the desiccating winds, which appeared to be highly charged with electricity. The herbage was parched up, and everything that the eye could rest upon was dry, dusty, and disagreeable. The 6th of February dawned much as very hot days generally do; the roseate tints of the horizon were rather brighter and more lurid than usual - the glassed glare over the sky more vividly perceptible. The north wind set strongly in early in the morning, and by eleven o'clock in the fore-noon it had increased to almost a hurricane.
‘’In the streets of Melbourne the heat was intense, and the atmosphere densely oppressive. Clouds of smoke and dust hung over the city. The fires which blazed in the surrounding country no doubt increased the suffocating sensation which was generally experienced. It was hardly possible to go abroad; the streets were nearly deserted; and a few of the persons who were compelled to make the effort to traverse them stalked along with their faces closely enveloped in cloth; no man, however bold, appeared able to face the furiously-suffocating blast, which seemed to wither up their physical energies. By noon, the inhabitants, generally, had shut themselves up in their various dwellings, too happy to have got out of the reach of the overpowering blast. They continued to sit until night listening in terror to the howl of this real sirocco. Had any portion of Melbourne ignited the whole of the city must have been reduced to ashes, as no effort of the inhabitants could have prevented the conflagration from extending and becoming general. The citizens were providentially preserved from so terrible a disaster."

Catastrophic Bushfires hit Victoria again in 1898 Feb 1, known as ‘ Red Tuesday’ when fires burned 260,000 hectares in South Gippsland. Twelve lives lost and more than 2,000 buildings were destroyed - 2,500 homeless.
In 1939 the 13th Jan became known as ‘Black Friday’, the fires in Victoria burned 1.5 to 2 million hectares, killed 71 people and destroyed more than 650 buildings.

In 1944 levels fires in the Western Districts of Victoria destroyed more than 500 houses and caused huge losses in the pastoral industry. Four or more grass fires near Hamilton, Dunkeld, Skipton and Lake Bolac burned about 440,000 hectares in eight hours. Between 15 and 20 people died. The total area covered by grass fires that season was about one million hectares.

In 1962, Fires in the Dandenong Ranges and on the outskirts of Melbourne killed 32 and destroyed more than 450 houses.

In 1965, fires the in Gippsland burned for 17 days, covering 300,000 hectares of forest and 15,000 hectares of grassland. More than 60 buildings and 4,000 stock were destroyed.

In 1969,Two hundred and eighty fires broke out on the 8th Jan, Twelve reached major proportions and burned 250,000 hectares. Twenty-three people died, including 17 motorists at Lara, trapped on the then highway between Geelong and Melbourne. The fires also destroyed 230 houses, 21 other buildings and more than 12,000 stock.

In 1977, widespread fires occurred across the Western District of Victoria. The fires killed four people and burned about 103,000 hectares. More than 198,500 stock, 116 houses and 340 other buildings were also lost.
In 1981, the 16th Feb became known as ‘Ash Wednesday’ more than 100 fires burned 210,000 hectares and killed 47 people. More than 27,000 stock and 2,000 houses were lost.

And that’s just Victoria.
A heretic! St Greta burn the unbeliever!

(You may also wish to follow the gourd/sandal/other random item.....)
 

TamtamPWRR

War Hero
And yet, this year is supposedly 'the worst on record'.
It is. That source quotes 47.2C, this year it has been 49.2 and summer isn't finished yet. You've also got those stupid uninformed fire brigades saying it's the worst ever as well, but what would a bunch of Australian bushfire fighters know in comparison to the armchair experts on the other (rainsodden) side of the world?
 
I know what you mean but the planet is not dying.
The Human race quite possibly is in the process of making itself extinct.
I agree that the planet is not dying, at least not on a human timescale. Technically it is going to die over millions of years, particularly when the Sun becomes a red giant.

Climate has been changing since the planet was formed. Humans have no control over the Earths magnetic field, the position of the magnetic poles, the distance from the sun, solar radiation, temperature of the core, volcanoes, etc.

Ecosystems and species are dying as they are wiped out by humans and predatory animals they introduced or removed. Various indigenous populations lived in balance with their environment for thousands of years but other's knackered theirs. Easter Island is one example. Population growth is supposedly slowing but population is still growing. Lack of resources was a driver for exploration, migration and trade.

The only solution socialism seems to provide is reducing life expectancy and increasing poverty and starvation. XR seem to approve of that. Tofu definitely is not the answer. Reduced population growth in Western countries may be a good thing. The determination to increase populations assumes food, water, energy and resources are abundant or can be made abundant. Supporting a nation in temporary crisis is one thing but supporting failed models seems counterproductive. Was Malthusian theory wrong?
 
Firebugs…

Is it usual for the Police to arrest this many, or is this an unsual number?
 
I agree that the planet is not dying, at least not on a human timescale. Technically it is going to die over millions of years, particularly when the Sun becomes a red giant.

Climate has been changing since the planet was formed. Humans have no control over the Earths magnetic field, the position of the magnetic poles, the distance from the sun, solar radiation, temperature of the core, volcanoes, etc.

Ecosystems and species are dying as they are wiped out by humans and predatory animals they introduced or removed. Various indigenous populations lived in balance with their environment for thousands of years but other's knackered theirs. Easter Island is one example. Population growth is supposedly slowing but population is still growing. Lack of resources was a driver for exploration, migration and trade.

The only solution socialism seems to provide is reducing life expectancy and increasing poverty and starvation. XR seem to approve of that. Tofu definitely is not the answer. Reduced population growth in Western countries may be a good thing. The determination to increase populations assumes food, water, energy and resources are abundant or can be made abundant. Supporting a nation in temporary crisis is one thing but supporting failed models seems counterproductive. Was Malthusian theory wrong?
We basically agree.
The Chinese with their one child policy are the only people doing anything positive but the RoW needs to follow suit. The EU and UN are doing the opposite.
I hate to say this but I am coming round to the idea that the Chinese ain't so bad after all.
They have been very benign in their treatment of the HK students compared to many other countries.
Their attitude to the Uigars was re education rather than ethnic cleansing which might have expected.
I still wouldn't want to live there though.
 
It is. That source quotes 47.2C, this year it has been 49.2 and summer isn't finished yet. You've also got those stupid uninformed fire brigades saying it's the worst ever as well, but what would a bunch of Australian bushfire fighters know in comparison to the armchair experts on the other (rainsodden) side of the world?
The POINT being..........this isn't a one off !

Shit happens,Climate Change Happens...naturally.

If people want to live in forests of trees known to be highly flamable, they should make sure they build their homes (Wood and tin ?) far enough away from the 'roman candles'!

An observation, not a criticism of the heroic efforts of firefighters on the frontline,who are now paying the price, for piss poor urban 'planning' !
 

Latest Threads

Top