Australia has a sensible idea

#61
Perhaps I'm just more up-to-date on lots of stuff than you are.
I'm informed by the worlds' media so that doesn't make me a know-it-all that just means that I listen to what's going on.
I also take govt reasoning with a salt-mine attached.
 
#63
Its a really great shopping list, but it relies heavily on the Ozzies finding lots of whinging poms and yanks to come and man the kit in the first place. The ADF are an utterly awesome bunch of people, but they rely very heavily on expat 2nd career military coming to live on the pension and bolstering their ranks. They've had major manpower problems with the existing 6 SSK fleet, so god alone knows how they'll find crews for 12.
...
As I wrote earlier, the problem was the mining boom. Join the Forces, earn $40K in your first year and get sent away from home to some shithole. join a mining company, earn $150K in your first year and fly to some shithole every 2 weeks.

Sadly the boom aligned with an increased tempo of operations - hence the need for ready to deploy experienced migrants. Both the operations and the boom are over. The lateral transfers will soon be over too.
 
#64
Chippymick glad you mentioned 28 Commonwealth Brigade! Should we reconstitute the Commonwealth Brigade again, perhaps based in Australia or NZ? I believe that it would be ideal for reacting to problems in the Far East, it would give the our Army an opportunity to serve alongside like minded people and perhaps a decent overseas posting. If we could persuade Canada to join in then maybe we could run to making it Divisional size, similar to the one deployed during the Korean War.

For those young ones out there, 28 Commonwealth Brigade, which was based in Terendak in the 50/60s, was an outstanding formation to belong to. It's ORBAT was: Bde HQ mixed. 1 UK Battalion, 1 Kiwi Battalion, 1 Aus Battalion, Mixed Gunner Regt, Eng Sqn, Fd Amb , OFP and RMP.
We've already made it more difficult for F&C personnel to join the UK AF due to the new residency rules. We would struggle to move a Div of personnel anywhere in the world now, even Germany! Our force is sliding rapidly down the capability slide at this time with recruiting a significant failing and retention a future risk. There is no way the Treasury would agree to an accompanied overseas posting on that scale even at a reduced Bde level. It just doesn't have the dosh!
 
#65
Indeed. Another paranoid know-it-all on ARRSE. Who would have thought? :)
Which I suspect is also another Gen Y problem. They "identify" as experienced ,competent because they know everything.

Slightly off topic, I've just spent a quality day with some old blokes some of whom worked on CIA programs in the 60's early 70's.

The most talked about book today was the one, no one has read yet. Just released is the eagerly anticipated Len Opie Biography.

Stone Cold by Andrew Faulkner

I mention it because I reckon it would be right up your alley.

opie.jpg


The best quote from the blurb is that in Korea, "Len Opie killed more Chinese than cholera."

Although the "Phoenix Program" was essentially an intelligence collation exercise. The snatch teams responsible for the programs 'death squad' reputation were trained by Australians working for the CIA. Opie, preeminent among them.

Australians had been working for the CIA in the communist killing caper in Vietnam since July 1962. This is not news to you or I, but to John Pilger and the bum fluff set who believe that Australian CIA cooperation only came to government attention with the election of Saint Gough in 1972, it probably rates as a scandal.

The clue bat eventually strikes. Being consistently wrong about everything is all part of the learning process. Patience is all that is required.

While the white paper is a good thing - Australia should not be a free rider when it comes to regional security. No one knows whether the bright shiny shopping list will survive the next election or not; However, Australia will always be able to provide the sort of niche capability to an alliance that Opie proved in the past.

Cheers

Mick.
 
#66
Better get down to Coles to pick up your tinfoil, Mick.
Can't be having second-hand int, no matter how compelling.

As for Whitlam not being aware of the actual gig at Pine Gap (?)- through compartmentalisation Harry S Truman didn't learn about the Manhattan Proj (even though he was VP) till he picked up the presidency after FDR's death in '45.

Truman is briefed on Manhattan Project - Apr 24, 1945 - HISTORY.com
Harry Truman

It's all about need-to-know and if you don't then you don't.

As for - if the procurements will happen and survive the next election (this year, in true Aussie political fashion) Au will always have the US, India or China to fall back on.

Just in-case the kiwis invade- as nobody else is!
 
#67
Which I suspect is also another Gen Y problem. They "identify" as experienced ,competent because they know everything.

Slightly off topic, I've just spent a quality day with some old blokes some of whom worked on CIA programs in the 60's early 70's.

The most talked about book today was the one, no one has read yet. Just released is the eagerly anticipated Len Opie Biography.

Stone Cold by Andrew Faulkner

I mention it because I reckon it would be right up your alley.

View attachment 236711

The best quote from the blurb is that in Korea, "Len Opie killed more Chinese than cholera."

Although the "Phoenix Program" was essentially an intelligence collation exercise. The snatch teams responsible for the programs 'death squad' reputation were trained by Australians working for the CIA. Opie, preeminent among them.

Australians had been working for the CIA in the communist killing caper in Vietnam since July 1962. This is not news to you or I, but to John Pilger and the bum fluff set who believe that Australian CIA cooperation only came to government attention with the election of Saint Gough in 1972, it probably rates as a scandal.

The clue bat eventually strikes. Being consistently wrong about everything is all part of the learning process. Patience is all that is required.

While the white paper is a good thing - Australia should not be a free rider when it comes to regional security. No one knows whether the bright shiny shopping list will survive the next election or not; However, Australia will always be able to provide the sort of niche capability to an alliance that Opie proved in the past.

Cheers

Mick.
Thanks that book looks very interesting.
 
#68
Thank you for making my point for me.

Whitlam, like you you, wouldn't have known an ice cream truck was up him unless it was playing Greensleeves.
 
#71

I took the ferry across from Sydney CBD to Manly today. At Garden Island Naval base stood the bloody huge new Canberra Class LHD. Australia now has two of them, each at 27,500 tonnes and 757 feel long, are bigger than the old Invincible class aircraft carriers. Each can carry 115 vehicles, over a thousand troops, four large landing craft and 18 helicopters. They have a range of 17,000 km.

HMAS_Canberra_in_June_2015.jpg


Ironically, the class is basically the Juan Carlos I from Spain, that bankrupt backward part of the EU that the UK keeps giving money to.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#72
The ADF realise it's all about priorities, on one hand high threat operators kit, on the other some really important stuff.
 
#73
It is a good news week for National security, especially with the appointment of Brigadier Andrew Nikolic to chair the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security.

Nikolic has an awesome CV.

There are probably some ARSSER's who have met him.
Nope but I was DS on a course that one of his daughters was on a couple of years back - she was an extremely sharp operator. Mentoring sessions were about as easy as they got, 90% of the debriefs went 'Nothing to add Ma'am - you're all over this'.
 
#74
I took the ferry across from Sydney CBD to Manly today. At Garden Island Naval base stood the bloody huge new Canberra Class LHD. Australia now has two of them, each at 27,500 tonnes and 757 feel long, are bigger than the old Invincible class aircraft carriers. Each can carry 115 vehicles, over a thousand troops, four large landing craft and 18 helicopters. They have a range of 17,000 km.
That'll be the Adelaide - the Canberra is parked off Fiji right now:

LHD commences big lift ashore for Fiji
 
#75
Which I suspect is also another Gen Y problem. They "identify" as experienced ,competent because they know everything.

Slightly off topic, I've just spent a quality day with some old blokes some of whom worked on CIA programs in the 60's early 70's.

The most talked about book today was the one, no one has read yet. Just released is the eagerly anticipated Len Opie Biography.

Stone Cold by Andrew Faulkner

I mention it because I reckon it would be right up your alley.

View attachment 236711

The best quote from the blurb is that in Korea, "Len Opie killed more Chinese than cholera."

Although the "Phoenix Program" was essentially an intelligence collation exercise. The snatch teams responsible for the programs 'death squad' reputation were trained by Australians working for the CIA. Opie, preeminent among them.

Australians had been working for the CIA in the communist killing caper in Vietnam since July 1962. This is not news to you or I, but to John Pilger and the bum fluff set who believe that Australian CIA cooperation only came to government attention with the election of Saint Gough in 1972, it probably rates as a scandal.

While the white paper is a good thing - Australia should not be a free rider when it comes to regional security. No one knows whether the bright shiny shopping list will survive the next election or not; However, Australia will always be able to provide the sort of niche capability to an alliance that Opie proved in the past.

Cheers

Mick.
Continuing slightly off-topic, I read the biography over the last few days and was disappointed. I got the impression that Opie was an extremely complex person and that Faulkner was struggling to get to grips with his subject. I have previously read Faulkner's bio of Monash and enjoyed the read but didn't think this was up to the same standard. Whether it was the paucity of material to work with or not, I don't know. I just got the impression that the man deserved better.
 
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#76
I was trying to understand the differences in classes of Ampibious Assault Ships as they all seem to do the same thing LPD, LPH. LHD, LHA etc
In this case what makes the Juan Carlos 1 an aircraft carrier and the RNAS Canberra a LPH when they are the same design as far as I can tell it is just the lack of fixed wing.
The Juan Carlos isn't really an aircraft carrier It was an LPH given a Ski Jump so it could stand in for the carrier at a pinch, Now expected to pretend to be an aircraft Carrier, despite the fact its lacking the ability to support them for anything but the shortest of periods**.

**According to other sources
 
#77
BB, I share your disappointment.

I agree that Faulkner did a rubbish job. I also agree that Opie was indeed a complex person.

If you want to know what precisely what made Len Opies shit itch. (And nearly everything did.) read his 'Australian's at war film archive' interview.

Completely skipped over in Faulkner's work was his main beef - the accusation that he tipped into the CIA's vast buckets of money for personal benefit.

His feud with the Australian Military Attache (An ex 22SAS pom) regarding his CMF status deserved a chapter all to itself.

What we didn't get was any sensible analysis of Opie's role in targeting infrastructure.

When Opie did it in Vietnam versus Viet Cong it was 'Phoenix' thus bad.

When Australians did the same thing in Afghanistan targeting the Taliban they were awarded Victoria Crosses for it. Thus good.

I would have liked to see some analysis regarding that obvious dichotomy.

So overall I was disappointed with Faulkner's effort.

Cheers

Mick.
 
#78
BB, I share your disappointment.

I agree that Faulkner did a rubbish job. I also agree that Opie was indeed a complex person.

If you want to know what precisely what made Len Opies shit itch. (And nearly everything did.) read his 'Australian's at war film archive' interview.

Completely skipped over in Faulkner's work was his main beef - the accusation that he tipped into the CIA's vast buckets of money for personal benefit.

His feud with the Australian Military Attache (An ex 22SAS pom) regarding his CMF status deserved a chapter all to itself.


Cheers

Mick.
The Australian Military Attache in South Vietnam? Do you have any more information about him?
 

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