Australia has a sensible idea

ugly

LE
Moderator
#21
who ever, The Hermans managed Poland didnt they
 
#23
Its a really great shopping list, but it relies heavily on the Ozzies finding lots of whinging poms and yanks to come and man the kit in the first place. The ADF are an utterly awesome bunch of people, but they rely very heavily on expat 2nd career military coming to live on the pension and bolstering their ranks. They've had major manpower problems with the existing 6 SSK fleet, so god alone knows how they'll find crews for 12.

Good luck - I predict a significant scale back within a few years as it becomes clear how expensive this will be...
Twas ever thus as you know.

Not just in defence.

According to the White Paper, all the ship-building is to be done in South Australia. This is partly economic pump priming, thought necessary due to the collapse of the Australian Car Industry. An industry that was established in the 1950's and 1960's in large part by 10 pound Poms.

Retention, particularly in Submarines is likely to improve at least in the short term due to the end of the mining boom.

Resource companies were particularly keen on poaching submariners and paying them stupid amounts of money.

Apparently, the highest paid tradies in Australia are the sparkies on Bass Strait oil rigs on $260,000 per annum. I'd imagine many of them are ex-pussers.

No better time to immigrate. Poms, whingeing or otherwise, are always welcome.
 
S

Spider39

Guest
#24
Its a really great shopping list, but it relies heavily on the Ozzies finding lots of whinging poms and yanks to come and man the kit in the first place. The ADF are an utterly awesome bunch of people, but they rely very heavily on expat 2nd career military coming to live on the pension and bolstering their ranks. They've had major manpower problems with the existing 6 SSK fleet, so god alone knows how they'll find crews for 12.

Good luck - I predict a significant scale back within a few years as it becomes clear how expensive this will be...
We are probable going to have the same problem however aren't we ?, manning our new carriers and their escorts .
 
#26
Not really.

'Straya is over 90% foreign-owned, lock, stock and barrel.
They started selling out (economically) to the Chinese a long time ago and it's still going on.
Anything that the chinks don't want is being sold off instead to a various multitude of Indian billionaires

They already sold out to the US back in the 60's and it wasn't till Gough Whitlam started asking questions that the facts came out about Pine Gap and the other bases the US had on Au soil.
The US now has a rotational force based in NT with over 1,000 USMC doing 6mth tours.
This is on top of the many ABs and DUMBs that are scattered around this vast, empty country

There's no military threat from the chinks as they already own everything so they've already taken over a long time ago.
I can't see any threats from PNG or Indonesia as they're both up the US's arse so maybe the only threat will come from NZ?
No they're in Oz in droves so no threat from there either.

Maybe Fiji or Samoa???

The truth is there's no threat in this AOR.
It's supposed to be a defence force but a lot of time is spent 12,000 miles away dropping stuff on the heads of Arabs or other brown people trying to educate them in the finesse of democracy and freedom. while also trying to validate the legitimacy of any agenda the septics are pursuing.

Do you want to tell the Aus Government that so they can save all that money as you can clearly can see the future.

Whilst you're at it, can you let us know the winning lottery ticket numbers for the next 10 years please.
 
#27
We are probable going to have the same problem however aren't we ?, manning our new carriers and their escorts .
Depends - manning is an issue, but its always been an issue for the RN. But the problem that the Aussies have is slightly wider than the RN - its essentially a fulltime dependency on hoping that you can entice ex-RN and increasingly ex-USN personnel down under to do 5-6 years to provide skills and capabilities that they cant recruit, retain or generate themselves. It costs them a fortune in offering it, knowing that a reasonable number of the ADF has to be provided from by overseas on an enduring basis, not just to fill the odd gap.

Navy News is regularly full of recruiting adverts for the RAN and RNZN - these forces structurally can't work without significant external assistance. The RN currently is gapped in places by contrast, but has the training schools and career pipelines to fix the problem over time internally - although this does take time.
 
#28
Not really.

'Straya is over 90% foreign-owned, lock, stock and barrel.
They started selling out (economically) to the Chinese a long time ago and it's still going on.
Anything that the chinks don't want is being sold off instead to a various multitude of Indian billionaires

They already sold out to the US back in the 60's and it wasn't till Gough Whitlam started asking questions that the facts came out about Pine Gap and the other bases the US had on Au soil.
The US now has a rotational force based in NT with over 1,000 USMC doing 6mth tours.
This is on top of the many ABs and DUMBs that are scattered around this vast, empty country

There's no military threat from the chinks as they already own everything so they've already taken over a long time ago.
I can't see any threats from PNG or Indonesia as they're both up the US's arse so maybe the only threat will come from NZ?
No they're in Oz in droves so no threat from there either.

Maybe Fiji or Samoa???

The truth is there's no threat in this AOR.
It's supposed to be a defence force but a lot of time is spent 12,000 miles away dropping stuff on the heads of Arabs or other brown people trying to educate them in the finesse of democracy and freedom. while also trying to validate the legitimacy of any agenda the septics are pursuing.
Chinese foreign Investment in Australia is about one quarter of that of Belgium. China's 64 Billion dollar investment in Australia is absolutely dwarfed by the UK's at 484 Billion dollars. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good dribble.

The ownership of an asset has no material effect on tax revenue. Royalties and taxes paid to the Federal Government remain the same regardless of whether the investors are Australian, Belgian or Chinese. Foreign Investment is vital for employment. Chinchilla would be in the same straits as Cunamulla for example without the Chinese development of Cameby Downs.

Exactly how is the joint facilty at Pine Gap different to the USAF use of RAF Alconbury or Diego Garcia?

Are you seriously suggesting that prior to 1972 the Australian Government knew nothing about Pine Gap and its purpose?

How is hosting US Marines in Darwin, as we do currently different to providing a battalion to the 28th Commonwealth Brigade in Malaysia in the 1950's and 1960's?

Do you have a similar objection to the Singaporean use of Rockhampton airport and Shoalwater Bay for exercises? The RSAF flying School is based at RAAF Pearce. Is it just US Military presence you object to or is it a universal objection?

What special insight can you share with us as to why the US, Australia and Singapore would co-operate so closely?

Awfully glad you mentioned Fiji. The Navy's flagship HMAS Canberra left the Port of Brisbane at 2300 last night with relief supplies for Fiji in the wake of Cyclone Winston. HMAS Canberra will provide the equivalent of a regional hospital for some of the 34,000 brown people who have recently been made homeless.
 
#29
Chippymick glad you mentioned 28 Commonwealth Brigade! Should we reconstitute the Commonwealth Brigade again, perhaps based in Australia or NZ? I believe that it would be ideal for reacting to problems in the Far East, it would give the our Army an opportunity to serve alongside like minded people and perhaps a decent overseas posting. If we could persuade Canada to join in then maybe we could run to making it Divisional size, similar to the one deployed during the Korean War.

For those young ones out there, 28 Commonwealth Brigade, which was based in Terendak in the 50/60s, was an outstanding formation to belong to. It's ORBAT was: Bde HQ mixed. 1 UK Battalion, 1 Kiwi Battalion, 1 Aus Battalion, Mixed Gunner Regt, Eng Sqn, Fd Amb , OFP and RMP.
 
#30
Seriously, you don't want any political advice from Australia- the place is a political joke and a laughing stock.
5 PMs in 5 yrs should set your alarm bells ringing slightly..
Four actually, the last two being Rhodes Scholars, with an election in between, but the bloodletting has been particularly vicious and unprecedented in modern times. Having said that, the Labour Party has had three leaders in the same period, one of whom is the current buffoon, whom I suspect is more of a global laughing stock than any of the leading Australian politicians.
 
#31
.

It is a good news week for National security, especially with the appointment of Brigadier Andrew Nikolic to chair the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security.

Nikolic has an awesome CV.

There are probably some ARSSER's who have met him.
Met Andy Nikolic many years back - Para by trade, very focussed, real pro, used to have a porn star 'tache "back in the day !"

Good appointment, he will hold some feet to the fire.
 
#32
Chippymick glad you mentioned 28 Commonwealth Brigade! Should we reconstitute the Commonwealth Brigade again, perhaps based in Australia or NZ? I believe that it would be ideal for reacting to problems in the Far East, it would give the our Army an opportunity to serve alongside like minded people and perhaps a decent overseas posting. If we could persuade Canada to join in then maybe we could run to making it Divisional size, similar to the one deployed during the Korean War.

For those young ones out there, 28 Commonwealth Brigade, which was based in Terendak in the 50/60s, was an outstanding formation to belong to. It's ORBAT was: Bde HQ mixed. 1 UK Battalion, 1 Kiwi Battalion, 1 Aus Battalion, Mixed Gunner Regt, Eng Sqn, Fd Amb , OFP and RMP.
It was an outstanding unit and the highwater mark of Commonwealth defence co-operation.

However, I don't see the UK reversing the 'East of Suez' withdrawal anytime soon.

Despite massive UK investment in Australia and large volumes of trade between us, the UK no longer has a strategic interest in the region. FARELF and SEATO are long dead.

A more likely result from the 'white paper' is that the re-organisation and re-equipment of the Australian Army will be designed so that an Australian Brigade will more easily integrate with a US Division. Strategically, Australia will always look to be allied with a powerful friend.

Problem is when your great and powerful friend chooses not to exert that power. The Obama administration has permitted China to 'Salami slice' the militarisation of the South China Sea. This has made everyone in the neighbourhood nervous.
 
#33
Met Andy Nikolic many years back - Para by trade, very focussed, real pro, used to have a porn star 'tache "back in the day !"

Good appointment, he will hold some feet to the fire.
Knew there would be someone!

Migrated from Serbia aged 4. Signed up as a digger. Made Brigadier. Poster boy for the Australian values of egalitarianism and meritocracy.

He manages to upset pretty much all the people I enjoy seeing upset.

Great appointment.
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
#34
Because after America and then France, Spain can claim to being the third Western Navy with an aircraft carrier... The Italians being placed fourth.
WTF are you going to moan, cry, whinge or bleat about when the HMS Queen Elizabeth comes into service?

let me guess CR2?
 
#35
WTF are you going to moan, cry, whinge or bleat about when the HMS Queen Elizabeth comes into service?

let me guess CR2?
Can we have an irony button plus double jeopardy especially for rock apes?

My poor attempt at humour; @Bouillabaisse being a tosser for not understanding it was not a dig at the Royal Navy but a dig at the Spanish Navy. You c**k.
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
#36
Can we have an irony button plus double jeopardy especially for rock apes?

My poor attempt at humour; @Bouillabaisse being a tosser for not understanding it was not a dig at the Royal Navy but a dig at the Spanish Navy. You c**k.
When your irony/humour start to sound like the dripping of a Sheeps uterus I find it hard to tell the difference.

But hey I only exited airframes for a living!
 
#37
- its essentially a fulltime dependency on hoping that you can entice ex-RN and increasingly ex-USN personnel down under to do 5-6 years to provide skills and capabilities that they cant recruit, retain or generate themselves.
I can't comment for the RAN in this regard, but I know that the RNZN have recruited a former USN helo pilot (SH-60's IIRC) to drive their SH-2's - I've met him when he arrived in the UK with his (female) Leading Aircrewman, both en route to RNAS Yeovilton for training.
 
#38
Because after America and then France, Spain can claim to being the third Western Navy with an aircraft carrier... The Italians being placed fourth.
It seems that Italians will buy F-35B but that the Spanish will not - I assume that when their AV-8B+'s go out of service (2025?), then they will be out of the fixed-wing game...
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#39
Can we have an irony button plus double jeopardy especially for rock apes?

My poor attempt at humour; @Bouillabaisse being a tosser for not understanding it was not a dig at the Royal Navy but a dig at the Spanish Navy. You c**k.
Methinks you've tagged the wrong person, since I've not commented in this thread so far. Been at the turps early, have we?
 

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