Auschwitz, the Nazis & the final solution

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by growler, Jan 26, 2005.

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  1. Given tomorrows event I am surprised not to find a thread on this excellent programme.
    Watching second part of this last night and it made me wonder what the
    ordinary squaddies at these places made of what they were being ordered to do.
    What sort of thing went on daily part 2 orders? What sort of training, drills etc. did they have to practice? What would they have written home to family,
    girlfriends? Did Hoess’ wife know what hubby was up to during the day &
    what sort of conversations over the dinner table of an evening.
    What about the banter/chat in the equivalent of a NAAFI of an evening?
    Laughter & trivia! I sumehow doubt it.
    Also in the prog last night - collaberating frog authorities - a charming bunch!
     
  2. How's about getting horrifically drunk & committing suicide - that was a favorite pastime of the Einsatzgruppen, and one of the many reasons that they moved from shooting to gassing.
     
  3. have just finished the book that go's with the program.
    did hoess wife know yes they had jews working the house and in the garden, guess where they got there naafi staff.
     
  4. you'd have to be some sort of git to murder thousands of people a day although the mass grave was funny as a thread.
    actually filling one with people who did'nt deserve(':(')
    Sad.
    sorry drunk and nazi's shooting themselves good.
    heard the ones that were caught at belson were forced to move the corpses of the typus victims till they caught typus and died.
    though if you did that now you'd be up in front of a court martial for abusing there (':x')
     
  5. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    I've missed all the programs so far and am gutted, does anyone know if they are to be repeated soon?
     
  6. I would imagine that the market forces at BBC will do a dvd. Amazon watch?
    The series drew me back to something which may seem strange. I was six in 1939 when the war started. I grew up on edge on London docklands with the air raids. We were always being told of parachutists dressed as nuns who would come and do unimagineable things to your mum, aunts and sisters. I had two uncles who got away at Dunkirk. One taken POW at Tobruk. Loads of anti=Germany propaganda. The Belsen, Dachau and Auschwitz reports on film and radio when I was 12'ish. Despite all that background, I have no problems
    with Germans - even German police retirement parties of blokes who must have joined about 1933 time. Whereas, noone has ever indoctrinated me about black persons and I do have troubles about them.
     
  7. Hoess's diary has been published. I think they used it against him at his trial.

    His family knew. I believe he let his children shoot a pistol at the inmates.
     
  8. Well that's what happens when you get convinced, or convince yourself that the people you're killing are essentially another species. We're not that horrified when people do that and much worse to other species and yet can't seem to get our heads around it when some start doing it to elements of our own. It's only a matter of belief that seperates the two.

    And it's not as if mankind has learnt from it either. As some of you will know from firsthand experience.
     
  9. To conntinue the serious nature of this thread, Just what was the beef with the Jews?
    I know the Jews crucified Christ. Jews have always been known for Usury, leanding money at high profit margins.
    I will also suggest that Jewish policy in 'Palastine' has sqandered much of the worlds sympathy over the Holocost.
    But just what is it about The Jew that provokes this perpetual racial hatered.
    john
    would the moderators do the decent thing and delete any post that degenerate this serious thread.
     
  10. I've alays suspected that it's because Judaism was for a long time a "closed" religion i.e. one could only be born into it and this somehow made people jealous. Their "otherness" with different dietry rules and holy days only reinforces this image of a closed club (which people tewnd to hate even if they have no desire to join).

    Another reason might by the bad press that Jews got after the late 1stC AD rebellion against the Romans. The Empire was pretty ruthless in breaking Jewish resistance and so related groups, particularly the Christians, tried to put distance between themselves and the Jews which later congealed into an anti-jewish tradition. Many pre-revolt christian writings are strongly influenced by Jewish tradition while those afterwards are decidedly cooler.

    Thirdly Jews were a relatively thinly spread group with a small population but with no restrictions on usury were percieved as relatively rich and therefore unpopular with the makings of a good scapegoat. Plus if you owe someone stacks of cash which you can't pay back (King John) the simplest solution is to get rid of the people you're in debt to. Charles the Fair of France did the same thing to the Templars.
     
  11. I don't believe it as anything to do with jews per se. Hitler was a eugenicist. He wanted to wipe out all the none white races. The jews were just a visible easy target. If he had had lots of negroes available he'd have gone for them first. Let us not forget that he also wiped out gypsies, communists, homosexuals, the disabled and pacifists. i.e. anyone who didn't fit into his idea of the pure aryan master race. The true message of the holocaust is that it is still going on today. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, and all the other ethnic cleansings that we sit by and do nothing about.
     
  12. Insofar as the Nazi objection, they blamed the Jews for costing them the first World War. I've never really understood the mechanics of this enuf to define here but Google doubtless will. Added to this was the fact that the Jews dress. general appearance and life style made them both highly visible and isolationist. Just as kids bully someone who looks or acts different. Have a look at the film Oliver - the one before last where Fagin was portrayed by (?) Aled Guiness as the archetypical Jew to gauge some idea of this hostility.
    As for the Palestine situation. The stated intent of Palestine extremists is to drive the Jews into the sea. Jews have seen what happens when you allow people to march you into the death camps so into the sea they will not go. The muslim-aligned countries who are in a strong position in UN have attained numerous sanctions etc through this automatic majority and Israel refuses to accept these - just as Palestinians refuse to accept earlier decisions to give Jews a homeland.
     
  13. Historically the Jews were the money lenders (but only because the Church forbade Christians to do so). They were also non Christian.

    Anytime the King or other local ruler found he'd maxed out the credit, and couldn't meet the bills the easiest way to make ends meet was to have a quick pogrom and get rid of the people you owed the dosh to.

    Likewise anytime the local equivalent of the National Front wanted someone to hate, the jews as non Christians made an easy target.

    A lot of Germans after the First War, couldn't or wouldn't believe that they had been defeated in the field and blamed Communists and civilian financiers, and jews and anyone else they could think of for the defeat. It is after all much easier to blame someone else than admit the truth.
     
  14. The whole anti-Jewish thing is historical in Europe there were massacres of jews in many cities especially in England and Spain - the Inquisition was originally against jews and the Magna Carta even stated that if you owed money to a Jew when you died the debt was not handed on to your family. Although a lot of it was to do with them being seen as the killers of Christ, like most things in history it actually had more to do with money. Jews were (are?) historically very good buisness people so they were heavily involved in money lending (never a popular occupation, just check out the bible). No-one likes to be in debt to a people they view as inferior to themselves. In the specific case of Germany post WW1 the country was poverty stricken after losing the War. German Jews (many of whom fought hard for Germany in the War) had relations in other countries and business interests outside of Germany. They were seen to be doing much better than everyone else which led to the 'Jewish Conspiracy' theory that they had helped the allies financially and were being rewarded.
     
  15. As previously stated, it's been going on for hundreds (thousands) of years.

    My theory has always been that their being part of one of the twelve tribes of Israel meant that locals (Germany, France, England, Spain) never trusted them as having loyalty to the local populace.

    In the end this meant that their religion was associated with a foreign state (not always in being) so they were obviously foreigners.

    Who made money out of WW1 ? - the industrialists, who relied on support from the banks. Who made money out of the banks ? - well, most would say that the Jewish association with money lending goes back a long way (even Jesus got hacked off with them), and a disproportionate number of the bankers were from Jewish families.

    Hopelessly generalised I know, but I think that's how these things came about. Add to this that Hitler said 'who remembers the Armenians' (after their 1915 holocaust, Turks with German support), and you get the 'hate' industry that resulted in Auschwitz and the like.

    Nazi B'stards !.