August Storm in Manchuria, 1945. What do you know about it?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by KGB_resident, Jun 2, 2005.

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  2. Malinovski's classic tank dash campaign...but, the question that's on all our lips is: did anyone get raped?
  3. As to Chinese and Korean women raped by Japanese soldiers then...

    As to Soviet soldiers then I'm unaware. I you would find anything then please tell me about it.
  4. I am a great fan of the Red Army. However, this campaign was not anything surprising or unexpected. The Japanese forces in place were those who hadn't been dragged away to the main effort and were not Japan's finest. They were woefully underequipped by European standards and their armour was pathetic. Their supply was non-existent as the US closed the vice on Japan.

    The Soviets were tooled up to the eyeballs and veterans of dismantling the Wehrmacht. They had more supplies than you could shake a whole forest of sticks at. The outcome was boringly predictable.

    The campaign itself was wholly unnecessary from a military point of view, however it expanded Soviet territory quite satisfactorily in that part of the world.

    If you want to talk about things that the Red Army did that were unexpected then what about the deeply echeloned defence used in 1941 ? The sacrifice of Pavlov's Western Group of Forces, the defence anchored on the Pripet, Yelyna and so on ? Leading to the counter-offensive around Moscow using troops withdrawn from the border with Manchuria - withdrawn as there wasn't much of a threat from the Japanese troops in Manchuria.
  5. Dear Stranger!

    Final resul was expected and logical. But I think that Americans didn't expect so fast and full defeat. Nobody (except Soviet generals) could expect it. Anyway about 1 mln soldiers (including Chenese allies) was a real power.

    It is true of course but it was not Iraqi but Japanese army. It's best regiments were super, other ones were simply good (not bad). Anyway Kwantung army was better than Italian army (for example).

    It was irrelevant. As Kwantung army was defeated in few days then any supplies from Japan couldn't help. Nothern China is a big region. So there was no problems with food and labour force to build defence lines, to repair roads, railways and so on.

    If you would say that it was predictable then I rather disagree.

    Who knows? At that time Americans had only few A-bambs and they would not be effective against Kwantung army taking into account size of territory. Soviet Union was asked (by US/UK) to declare war on Japan after 3 months from victory in Europe. If involvement of Soviet Union was unnecessary then why it was decided in Yalta? Btw, all territirial aquisitions of Soviet Union were approved in Yalta.

    Japan could declare capitulation 7 August 1945 (after first A-bombing). It would be a very wise decision). In this case Soviet offensive operation would be indeed unnecessary. But Japan capitulated only after factual defeat of Kwantung army. 'After' is not equal to 'because of' but no doubt situation in China influenced on final decision.

    Operations in Europe are too well-know. By contrast, 'August Storm' is absolutely unknown in the West. But this operation is probably the most effective one of such scale during WW2 (and maybe even in world history).

    Btw, my grandfather was severely wounded near Moscow in 1941. Later he was killed at last day of Stalingrad battle.
  6. Well, the reason why the Russian could withdraw troops from the Manchurian border in 1941 was that, after the Japanese made several tries to invade Siberia in the 1930s, they got a very good kicking every time (Chuikov rings a bell?), and decided not to risk it again, even though Hitler tried to push them to open another front.
    The Russians had a spy inside the German embassy in Tokyo, Richard Sorge, who gave them the news, and Stalin decided that it was safe to withdraw some divisions from Siberia to send them to the western front.

  7. You are absolutely right. Though Stalin would make it anyway later or sooner. After Pearl Harbour it was not too dangerous. There was a big dispute inside Japanese military leadership about direction of future expansion in 1941.

    1. War with USA
    2. War with Soviet Union then it had enough troops on Far East.

    Japanese 'thinktank' thought that next year Soviet Union would be an easy target (even during war with USA) after its 'inevitable' defeat. In 1942 Japans theoretically could capture Soviet Far East and part of Siberia but what would be further development? Stalin could invite for example American troops. After Stalingrad, I think Japans left idea of invasion in Soviet Union.

    Interesting detail. There was peace treaty between Japan and Soviet Union. Accodring to the treaty Soviet Union was to arrest American planes and crews until the end of the war. 3 American B-29 (that had technical problems) and crews were formally detained. The Americans were placed (with comfort of course) in camp in Uzbekistan but 'escaped' and were in Iran soon.

    As to the planes, Stalin summoned leading constructors and asked were they able to built such a plane.

    'We can make even a better plane'.

    'No I don't want better. Make exactly one-to-one copy.'

    Fate of those who dare not obey Stalin's orders was sad. So B-29 was reproduced (in many copies) with great accuracy.
  8. In 1941, the Japanese had two problems:
    The American oil embargo and the lack of rubber (both needed for a mechanised army and even more the Navy and Air Force). To continue their main goal (the occupation of China, surprisingly at their maximum expansion, the Japanese didn´t even control half of China and were stuck in a protracted guerilla war, mainly against Mao Ze-Dong´s Communists), they desperately need oil and rubber. Their intended source of oil were the oil fields in the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), while their target for rubber were the rubber plantations in the Malayan peninsula.
    The problem was that the American controlled Philippines were straddling their supply lines for the attack on Indonesia, so they had to be taken as well. The Japanese knew that the Americans had a big fleet in Hawaii, which would come to the aid of the Philippines, therefore they struck against Pearl Harbour to destroy this fleet and have a free hand in south-east Asia. Unfortunately for them, they missed the American aircraft carriers and with the unannounced attack drew the wrath of the American population and the whole industrial power on themselves.

  9. For the spotters among you all

    The Tu 4 'Bull'
  10. I absolutely agree with Walther.

    Recently I saw documentary about 'creation' of TU-4. Even photo-camera belonged to one crewman was reproduced. It was regarded as a planes equipment (Soviet variant was called FED - Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky).