Attn: Smartascarrots - Chinese National Day

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LE
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#2
Tricky to answer I would have thought - aren't the proles banned from the parade?
 
#4
As someone living in China, I can tell you everyone is parading about, the streets are packed and everywhere is heaving with the noise and bustle that only the Chinese can make. All markets and supermarkets are log jammed as people prepare the celebration dinners - we've been invited to 4 so far...Should be a good night...
 
#5
Well Hans, go easy on the 'gambais' with the rice wine. One of the most fearsome hangovers I've ever had was after a banquet with some university professors who all wanted to drink the gweilo under the table!
 
#6
No problem Andy, I don't drink! Mind you, what they call rice wine tastes and smells like perfumed moonshine but western booze is cheap here - at least in Western terms.
I will concentrate on the food, the maid has just brought a large duck into the apartment, its quacking away on the kitchen balcony so I suspect I'll have to 'take care' of it before lunch tomorrow...
 
#8
A fairly extensive display by the PLA

Quick spotter question

questionable cam

If the caption is correct then these vehicles would be on "the shore" which would seem to make the cam pretty useless.

Can any spotters out there enlighten me?
 
#9
hansvonhealing said:
No problem Andy, I don't drink! Mind you, what they call rice wine tastes and smells like perfumed moonshine but western booze is cheap here - at least in Western terms.
I will concentrate on the food, the maid has just brought a large duck into the apartment, its quacking away on the kitchen balcony so I suspect I'll have to 'take care' of it before lunch tomorrow...
Good job this isn't the NAAFI... are you sure that maid isn't MDN in his cross dressing gear? :D
 
#10

Auld-Yin

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#11
hansvonhealing said:
No problem Andy, I don't drink! Mind you, what they call rice wine tastes and smells like perfumed moonshine but western booze is cheap here - at least in Western terms.
I will concentrate on the food, the maid has just brought a large duck into the apartment, its quacking away on the kitchen balcony so I suspect I'll have to 'take care' of it before lunch tomorrow...
The maid or the duck?
 
#12
AndyPipkin said:
Anything interesting in the parade?
Yep, one biggie for me. Hu was wearing a Mao suit - a standard symbol for leaders wanting to show their association with the PLA.

What with Xi Jinping not being named as head of the Central Military Commission at the last Party Congress, this pretty much seals it for me that he's not the total shoe-in for the Presidency everyone seems to assume. Even if he gets it, it looks likely that Hu will retain Chairmanship of the CMC in much the same way as Deng did with Hu Yaobang and remain an Eminence Grise. That's bloody good news for China, IMO, and probably for us too.

Another one was that Jiang was on pretty prominent display as well. A few years back, Hu went after the Jiang 'Shanghai Faction' by sacking the then Health Minister, a pretty incompetent quack who happened to be a Jiang associate. Willy Lam described it as 'throwing a live grenade into their sitting room' and it was pretty much a declaration of open war between Hu's reform-minded Youth League faction and the Shanghai clique. I'd read this as a bone thrown to Jiang to get him to admit defeat.
 
#14
Seems daft at first, but I'd imagine they have to be camouflaged from ships at sea from quite a distance. Perhaps they're slated for siting against the backdrop of grey cliffs?

Don't forget, we used to have bright pink recon spitfires and pink landys because those turned out to be the most effective colours. The best camouflage isn't always the most obvious colour or combination of colours.

*edited once for brain fart.
 
#15
Ritchie-Hook said:
If the caption is correct then these vehicles would be on "the shore" which would seem to make the cam pretty useless.

Can any spotters out there enlighten me?
It's a dodgy piece of translation, that's all. They're more properly referred to as anti-ship missiles. They don't actually have to be on the shore, just anywhere the launchers can get within range of the target.

The same weapons could be mounted on ships or theoretically even air-delivered with some modification.
 
#16
smartascarrots said:
AndyPipkin said:
Anything interesting in the parade?
Yep, one biggie for me. Hu was wearing a Mao suit - a standard symbol for leaders wanting to show their association with the PLA.

What with Xi Jinping not being named as head of the Central Military Commission at the last Party Congress, this pretty much seals it for me that he's not the total shoe-in for the Presidency everyone seems to assume. Even if he gets it, it looks likely that Hu will retain Chairmanship of the CMC in much the same way as Deng did with Hu Yaobang and remain an Eminence Grise. That's bloody good news for China, IMO, and probably for us too.

Another one was that Jiang was on pretty prominent display as well. A few years back, Hu went after the Jiang 'Shanghai Faction' by sacking the then Health Minister, a pretty incompetent quack who happened to be a Jiang associate. Willy Lam described it as 'throwing a live grenade into their sitting room' and it was pretty much a declaration of open war between Hu's reform-minded Youth League faction and the Shanghai clique. I'd read this as a bone thrown to Jiang to get him to admit defeat.
B'out time you showed up! :wink:

So good political news then. What about the stuff that does bang?
 
#17
Whilst the PLA has some way to go before having a truly expeditionary capability, the development of their anti-ship missiles is a pretty worrying aspect. Saw some footage that was *ahem* obtained of the Sunburn missile - scary stuff.

Am I right in thinking though that the PLA don't have a submarine based version?
 
#18
hansvonhealing said:
No problem Andy, I don't drink! Mind you, what they call rice wine tastes and smells like perfumed moonshine but western booze is cheap here - at least in Western terms.
Maotai is the most disgusting drink known to man - a friend of mine aptly describes it as 'like drinking liquid farts'.

I think the PLA marines' uniform cam has toned down a bit. There was a marvellous photo on the SCMP about 8 years ago of a parade with a section of PLAM - the bright white and blue wavy cam had to be seen to be believed.
 
#19
parapauk said:
B'out time you showed up! :wink:

So good political news then. What about the stuff that does bang?
Apologies for running late (as opposed to running dog :wink: ). One of the joys of working in Higher Education is the appalling amount of time it takes to get an instant decision from senior management.

The simple answer is that their kit looks good but hasn't been tested under real combat conditions. The flip-side is that their procurement trials are a hell of a lot more intensive than anything the West can throw at it short of fielding them in war. This is a combination of the PLA owning the armaments industry and their willingness and ability to make their live fire drills as realistic as possible. There are no cnuts with white mine-tape on their lids running around on PLA ranges telling you to move here, go that way, shoot at that target but not this one, etc. Trained soldier? Crack on.

The heavier and more hi-tech kit gets thrown around far more than BAe would allow to happen before the contract was signed, so they know in advance of full production what's squaddie-proof and what isn't. Although there's still a fair amount of corruption and nepotism involved in the supply chain which leads to some real shite being produced, they have a typically Chinese solution to that: shoot the bent buggers where you can and when you can't touch them sell the non-kosher weapons on the open market and supply your troops with good stuff from the legit factories. Everybody's happy. :D

To summarise, the kit is not as good as the Yank stuff, or even as some of ours or the French - but it's running a damned close third and there's a powerful lot of it. They've also got a phenomenal number of extremely bright lads and lassies working to improve it, an increasing number of whom are western educated. Their main efforts are going toward network-centric warfare, national defence and a minor expeditionary capacity. They don't even pretend that they could launch a full-on invasion out of theatre and even forcing a beachhead on Taiwan would be a pretty bloody affair. They'd focus certainly their naval efforts on maintaining a blockade and keeping outside interference at a minimum. If they don't already have sub-launched Silkworms then it's a safe bet they'll have a few thousand of aforesaid bright young things working on it round the clock.

Edit: Sea Eagles, not Silkworms.
 

Sixty

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#20
This linky is quite cool. It's the parade filmed with time-lapse photography. Really gives an idea of the scale (and the unusual camouflage).

It's from the Guardian.
 

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