Attention ANDY! Celtic imperialism...

#1
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/derek_draper/2006/04/hoorah_for_england_and_st_geor.html

The Scots have their own parliament. The Welsh have their national assembly. But the English have only Westminster - where Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs wield over 100 crucial votes, far more than Tony Blair's majority of 69.
...
The English are no longer the citizens of a democracy, but the subjects of Celtic imperialism - and very soon they are going to wake up to this fact.
...
The modern dragon in our midst - this disenfranchisement of the English - will have to be slain. England will, as democracy demands, have to be governed by the English.
 
#2
Nice post Sergey, convenient timing as the flags of St George come down after a suitable fluttering and possible BNP undertones cashing in on the rise of nationalism and in some cases , xenophobia.

Good use of political arithmetic but sadly poor use of historical fact. Boadicea or Boudicca was a Celt but a member of the Iceni tribe but is immortalized for her fight against the Romans. East Anglia where she lived, does not have it's own assembly or parliament so apparently you don't have to go as far as Scotland, Wales or NI to find Celtic influence and it's not guaranteed in those countries either. The term Celt is one of the most misused terms in historical debate and I see it's now used in hysterical debate or a pathetic attempt to whip up some sort of anti non-English rhetoric.

I know you are only posting the article and I appreciate your Russian fishing trips, hoping for a bite wherever you post and it does stir debate or should do. I see at the top of the article, the words 'comment is free' and not wanting to disappoint I would say the article rates just the one out of ten and that deplicable standard can be summed up by the old stalwart "BOLLOX'.
 

Sixty

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#3
Hmm, let's look at (god forbid) the facts...

642 Seats-Total
525 English
59 Scottish
40 Welsh
18 Northern Irish (although Sinn Fein do not take their seats)

Yep 'Celtic Imperialism' in action eh, Sergey? Get a grip.


Andy's point about Scots voting on English only legislation is a seperate issue and one on which I agree with him (I'm Scottish) that it shouldn't be allowed. There will never be a case where the 'Celts' could impose their will on the English MPs.


Oh, and before you rehash my previous argument with Andy, that was a very tongue-in-cheek attempt at a wind-up :D
 
#5
Sixtyfootdoll said:
Hmm, let's look at (god forbid) the facts...

642 Seats-Total
525 English
59 Scottish
40 Welsh
18 Northern Irish (although Sinn Fein do not take their seats)

Yep 'Celtic Imperialism' in action eh, Sergey? Get a grip.


Andy's point about Scots voting on English only legislation is a seperate issue and one on which I agree with him (I'm Scottish) that it shouldn't be allowed. There will never be a case where the 'Celts' could impose their will on the English MPs.
Hi!

Our friend Andy initiated this thread.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=36654.html

He thought that it would be interesting for me. Previously Andy wrote

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=31759/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=15.html

AndyPipkin said:
Sergey...I am an English nationalist and beleive England would be a more prosperous and free nation by getting rid of the Celtic hangers-on, that's all. I also object to Scottish MP's voting on matters which purely affect England, while English MP's can't vote on things purely affecting Scotland.
So I believed that this theme would be interesting for Andy. Probably he would comment the opinion expressed in the Guardian.

As for me then I of course wish to see true friendship between peoples of the UK. And military brotherhood is a great thing. Maybe I'm wrong but mixed English/Scotish/Welsh regiments would be usefull in the formation if not the British nation but something close to it.
 
#6
Delete please.
 
#7
KGB_resident said:
As for me then I of course wish to see true friendship between peoples of the UK. And military brotherhood is a great thing. Maybe I'm wrong but mixed English/Scotish/Welsh regiments would be usefull in the formation if not the British nation but something close to it.
Ermm Sergy what do you think the RLC,RE,REME,AGC,RAMC,RA,Rsigs,Para,ect are made up of :roll:
 
#8
Sixtyfootdoll said:
Hmm, let's look at (god forbid) the facts...

642 Seats-Total
525 English
59 Scottish
40 Welsh
18 Northern Irish (although Sinn Fein do not take their seats)

Yep 'Celtic Imperialism' in action eh, Sergey? Get a grip.


Andy's point about Scots voting on English only legislation is a seperate issue and one on which I agree with him (I'm Scottish) that it shouldn't be allowed. There will never be a case where the 'Celts' could impose their will on the English MPs.


Oh, and before you rehash my previous argument with Andy, that was a very tongue-in-cheek attempt at a wind-up :D
On the point that celtic MPs could never impose their will on the English MP's, i would advise you to the disproportionate number of Scottish MPs in positions of power in HMG.

Blair was born in Scotland and educated in Scotland (secondary education)
Brown was born in and bred in Fife and is a proud scot
Robin Cook (ex Foreign Secretary) was born and bred in Scotland and a proud Scot
John Reid Sec of state for defence
Alistair Darling Sec of state for Department for Transport and Secretary of State for Scotland (Brought up, educated and worked in Scotland)
Lord Falconer of Thoroton ( Lord Chancellor) Brought up in and educated in Scotland.
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Des Browne, Born and Bred In Scotland.

The list goes on, and i'm sure there are a number of former cabinet members who could be added, but i think the point has been made :D
 

Sixty

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Book Reviewer
#9
The list goes on, and i'm sure there are a number of former cabinet members who could be added, but i think the point has been made
Um, why? The argument was about a Celtic block vote, not Scots members of the Cabinet :?: You've made no point at all.
 
#10
Sixtyfootdoll said:
The list goes on, and i'm sure there are a number of former cabinet members who could be added, but i think the point has been made
Um, why? The argument was about a Celtic block vote, not Scots members of the Cabinet :?: You've made no point at all.
The point i was trying to make is that the 'celts' already have a disproportionate level of power and influence in HMG.

They also have their own parliments and assemblies and can vote on matters that only effect England.

And no, the article was not about block voting, it was about the influence of Scottish and Welsh MPs in preserving Blair's majority
 

Sixty

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Moderator
Book Reviewer
#11
Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs wield over 100 crucial votes
^^
And no, the article was not about block voting, it was about the influence of Scottish and Welsh MPs in preserving Blair's majority

Semantics. And see my first post. They should be restricted from voting on issues that only affect England in my opinion.
 
#14
AndyPipkin said:
Well at least Sergey's posting about somethiong other than the USA, for once!

Sergey, what are your views on the 'West Lothian Question'?
As I'm aware there are many propositions:

1) No Scottish or Welsh representation at Westminster
2) Maintenance of the status quo in terms of levels of representation
3) Reduction of Scottish and Welsh representation at Westminster
4) Scottish and Welsh MPs to speak and vote only on those matters not transferred to
Scottish and Welsh Assemblies ('in and out Members')
...

I think that it would be logical to rename House of Commons in English parliament where would be only MPs from England. In this case House of Lords would be the British parliament, would decide British problems, internatiuonal affairs and so on. Of course in this case House of the Lords should be an elected body.
 
#16
I love the idea of the late Robin Cook being described as ex-Foreign Secretary. "Ah cuddles, I see your father died. Yes the ex-civil engineer...poor old chap"
 
#17
The notion that everyone from north of the border is a Celt is a nonsense - the Angles settled heavily in the Scottish lowlands and central regions and the Norse raiders also settled in moder day Scotland. The Scots language is of Anglo-Saxon origin i.e. Germanic.

A recent TV programme "Blood of the Vikings" carried out DNA research throughout the British Isles to gauge the extent of Norse. An interesting fact to emerge from this research was that they found no more Celtic genes in mainland Scotland than in Southern England.

If we are going to have this debate (which we must!), let's substitute "Scottish" for "Celtic".
 
#19
AndyPipkin said:
Well you seem to have a basic grasp of 'WLQ'. Personally I'd go for option 4 at the mo. It would defuse the issue for the time being.
4) Scottish and Welsh MPs to speak and vote only on those matters not transferred to Scottish and Welsh Assemblies ('in and out Members') ?

Maybe but it is a difficult enough decision from technical point of view.

By the way have you even one examle of an important enough law that affects exclusively England but has been passed only due to 'Celtic' MPs? I mean that if only English MPs would be counted then the law would not be approved.
 

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