ATOS Healthcare & PIPS, any experiances?

[chuggafugga]

I've had a very serious issue with this agency, after sustaining an epileptic seizure and being medically discharged I was basically introduced to what was known at the time as Disability Living Allowance, after a consolation with my GP was issued a sick note and advised of DLA.

Now Atos as everyone knows scrutinizes applications for PIPS and the components, however, after all face to face consultations with Atos they seem to think that just because you can make your own way to the interview etc your fit and well to travel independent just because I didn't require someone to hold my hand or maybe because no one was prepared to accompany myself?

Its quite frustrating as the fact is that at the moment I am not relieving any financial help as before however my circumstances haven't really changed and its quite frustrating with these guys to be honest, I don't know if anyone else has had any similar experiences with this particular agency?

 

[Ritch]

I've had a very serious issue with this agency, after sustaining an epileptic seizure and being medically discharged I was basically introduced to what was known at the time as Disability Living Allowance, after a consolation with my GP was issued a sick note and advised of DLA.

Now Atos as everyone knows scrutinizes applications for PIPS and the components, however, after all face to face consultations with Atos they seem to think that just because you can make your own way to the interview etc your fit and well to travel independent just because I didn't require someone to hold my hand or maybe because no one was prepared to accompany myself?

Its quite frustrating as the fact is that at the moment I am not relieving any financial help as before however my circumstances haven't really changed and its quite frustrating with these guys to be honest, I don't know if anyone else has had any similar experiences with this particular agency?

I have. All bad. I can't get in to it all as its a long story but I was found fit and healthy despite being seriously crippled and after I won at the independent tribunal, was signed off indefinitely as there's no chance I will get better.

Cúnts.

 

[blackmetallic]

That person you bring with you is also a witness. The assessor will treat you differently and be less derogatory in their assessment if you bring someone.

 

[W21A]

No direct involvement myself, but after speaking with a few of their 'customers' it would appear there motto is 'We don't give ATOS.' An ex-forces comrade left the company in frustfation at their attitude.

 

[jarrod248]

I've had a very serious issue with this agency, after sustaining an epileptic seizure and being medically discharged I was basically introduced to what was known at the time as Disability Living Allowance, after a consolation with my GP was issued a sick note and advised of DLA.

Now Atos as everyone knows scrutinizes applications for PIPS and the components, however, after all face to face consultations with Atos they seem to think that just because you can make your own way to the interview etc your fit and well to travel independent just because I didn't require someone to hold my hand or maybe because no one was prepared to accompany myself?

Its quite frustrating as the fact is that at the moment I am not relieving any financial help as before however my circumstances haven't really changed and its quite frustrating with these guys to be honest, I don't know if anyone else has had any similar experiences with this particular agency?

You may find this website of use
Home
You need to know exactly how the point system works, get help from someone locally too such as a welfare rights officer - should be on council website.
If you don't match those points you won't get any cash, it's as simple as that.

 

[Tedsson]

I don’t know if the test is still called the Work Capability Assessment. Even if not it will be a derivative thereof.

Most people assume it is a medical, which is exactly wrong. It is designed to remove the assessment by doctors and make it form driven.

It is usually, but not always, administered by people with some sort of medical qualification such as physiotherapist. Occasionally a doctor.

Those medics who can, do. Those that can’t work for ATOS. (Are they still doing it. I thought they lost the contract for inefficiency).

Look at the test on the site Jarrod put up. You could lose two legs, your main arm, and eyesight but still be deemed fit for work as you can get a wheelchair, learn how to use the other arm and learn Braille. I kid you not.

 

[putteesinmyhands]

I can't bring myself to blame ATOS...

Following an industrial accident, I couldn't walk any appreciable distance, nor could I sit or stand for more than 15 minutes. Lying down wasn't good either.

An assessment by an ATOS GP rated me as 15% disabled, just achieving the threshold for Industrial Injury Disablement Benefit. Not that it was much of a benefit as it was then deducted from my ESA/JSA. The assessment also discerns whether ESA or JSA is claimable - ESA if you can't work, JSA if you can. I fell into the JSA category because I didn't need a carer, could tie my shoelaces with difficulty and could hold an empty shoe box.

I couldn't think of a job that didn't involve walking, standing or sitting. Nor could anybody at the JobCentre, any of their careers advisors or the doctor and judge at my failed tribunal, yet I was still obliged to apply for 5 jobs every day. It was an absolute farce.

Not ATOS's fault though. Their GP apologised to me during the assessment, explaining that he could see that I was clearly unable to work but the assessment had a strict series of questions and tests. Essentially, if you didn't need full-time care, you were deemed fit to work. He said that he'd append some comments to his findings but advised that they wouldn't be taken into consideration by the DSS - the rules were hard and fast. The doctor at my tribunal said the same thing - the judge wasn't vocal about it but she did nod her head in apparent agreement.

So, blaming ATOS is just shooting the messenger. They don't set the criteria, they just perform the tests to which there is only a binary result. For example, "Can tie shoelaces with difficulty and with great distress" becomes "Can tie shoelaces". Similarly, "Can lift and carry an empty shoebox" becomes "Capable of lifting and carrying objects".

 

[jarrod248]

I don’t know if the test is still called the Work Capability Assessment. Even if not it will be a derivative thereof.

Most people assume it is a medical, which is exactly wrong. It is designed to remove the assessment by doctors and make it form driven.

It is usually, but not always, administered by people with some sort of medical qualification such as physiotherapist. Occasionally a doctor.

Those medics who can, do. Those that can’t work for ATOS. (Are they still doing it. I thought they lost the contract for inefficiency).

Look at the test on the site Jarrod put up. You could lose two legs, your main arm, and eyesight but still be deemed fit for work as you can get a wheelchair, learn how to use the other arm and learn Braille. I kid you not.

I’ve looked at the jobs, they pay quite a bit whoever has the contract now it doesn’t matter as the government set the criteria and it’s totally point based.
Can write a huge essay but if it doesn’t meet the points it means nothing.
I’ve filled the forms in for people who are deserving, answer questions as to how you are on worse days, not best days.
Read the points system, match the points, take a witness.

 

[Ortholith]

Read the points system, match the points, take a witness.

What Jarrod said. I had the delightful experience (a decade ago) of being told as I was still technically a student I was owed nothing. This was despite being kicked out of Uni for a year (as I couldn't do the course, being a cripple) and having nothing to live on and having paid in to the NI system for 2 years. Fortunately parents put me up until I could go back to studying.

Play the system, read up first on the points they are looking for and then exaggerate for them. The best that will happen is you get what is deserved and worst is they tell you to **** off.

 

[Joker62]

I’ve looked at the jobs, they pay quite a bit whoever has the contract now it doesn’t matter as the government set the criteria and it’s totally point based.
Can write a huge essay but if it doesn’t meet the points it means nothing.
I’ve filled the forms in for people who are deserving, answer questions as to how you are on worse days, not best days.
Read the points system, match the points, take a witness.

My OH was told to never admit having good days, they are all bad, it's just a matter of how bad. She had her PIP assessment a few months back, I went with her. They held it miles from where we live, in a medical centre that was accessible, but the interview room was in a cabin at the back where her electric chair struggled to get into. The assessor noticed that I had to manhandle the chair to get round the corners and through doorways, with every bump, she winced and made a note of it. I suggested that if they have to do these assessments, perhaps they should make the places accessible, his reply was "not my choice, I just get told where to go and what rooms to use". It seems that they try to make things as hard as possible. She got the higher payments though.

 

[jarrod248]

I’m not suggesting playing the system or exaggerating as that could lead to going to prison.
Knowing the system is important or people in genuine need won’t get any benefits.
Don’t play down symptoms and pretend everything is ok, don’t be proud and lose out.

 

[jarrod248]

My OH was told to never admit having good days, they are all bad, it's just a matter of how bad. She had her PIP assessment a few months back, I went with her. They held it miles from where we live, in a medical centre that was accessible, but the interview room was in a cabin at the back where her electric chair struggled to get into. The assessor noticed that I had to manhandle the chair to get round the corners and through doorways, with every bump, she winced and made a note of it. I suggested that if they have to do these assessments, perhaps they should make the places accessible, his reply was "not my choice, I just get told where to go and what rooms to use". It seems that they try to make things as hard as possible. She got the higher payments though.

I’ve heard similar stories lifts broken at assessment centres, people followed from train stations. People sent miles away which proves they can negotiate to places.
It’s a big mess around and a patient of mine was severely disabled, depressed after his daughter died, left looking after her autistic son, nightmare for him and his wife.
Hopefully after me completing the forms they’ll leave them alone, grandson would only eat McDonalds food, terrible for his Grandad when crippled with arthritis and depression.
They’d an apartment in Canary Islands but Grandson won’t fly, Grandad too depressed to go.

 

[Spec-op1989]

My (indirect) experience leads me to think that whoever set up this barbaric, callous and Kafka- esque system should be beaten with Gunn and Moore cricket bats until they’re properly disabled.


Then made to go through their own evil labyrinth of humiliation.


Private Eye are a good listener by the way.

 

[meerkatz]

I’ve heard similar stories lifts broken at assessment centres, people followed from train stations. People sent miles away which proves they can negotiate to places.
It’s a big mess around and a patient of mine was severely disabled, depressed after his daughter died, left looking after her autistic son, nightmare for him and his wife.
Hopefully after me completing the forms they’ll leave them alone, grandson would only eat McDonalds food, terrible for his Grandad when crippled with arthritis and depression.
They’d an apartment in Canary Islands but Grandson won’t fly, Grandad too depressed to go.

Or the CCTV camera on the door moved to watch the road crossing, mind you don’t limp away from the speeding cars too quickly, and the lift turned off with a small handwritten note on the other wall telling you to ring for it to be switched on if you can’t do the stairs Limp up the stairs? Fail assessment.

It’s a box tick process with targets of percentages to fail.

 

[CatsEyes]

Having worked in a department connected to the system, I would always advise anyone to take a witness to any interview or assessment where it's allowed to have one. Ask them to take written notes, not just listen to what's said.

 

[meerkatz]

Having worked in a department connected to the system, I would always advise anyone to take a witness to any interview or assessment where it's allowed to have one. Ask them to take written notes, not just listen to what's said.

^ Top Tip

They will often however try and chance their arm and say you cant take written notes and give you some waffle about 'privacy' and 'data protection'.

 

[dun_n_dusted]

I can't bring myself to blame ATOS...




So, blaming ATOS is just shooting the messenger. They don't set the criteria, they just perform the tests to which there is only a binary result. For example, "Can tie shoelaces with difficulty and with great distress" becomes "Can tie shoelaces". Similarly, "Can lift and carry an empty shoebox" becomes "Capable of lifting and carrying objects".

No I can't either, unless you get an absolute arrse as I have had on occasion, but the majority do what their job expects of them and follow the question set or guidelines very closely.

Unfortunately to get to the required number of points you sometimes need to study the question set for PIP and phrase your answers appropriately e.g. if you can tie your shoelaces on most days but can't when the pains bad, start your answer with "No I can't always", then when asked how many times a week you can or can't tie them, either be honest or get inventive but the important thing is to start with No. It might not sit well but you need to understand that often the meaning of what you say will be taken as the most disadvantaged to you rather than being interpreted in an advantageous way in order to qualify you for benefit.

 

[dun_n_dusted]

My (indirect) experience leads me to think that whoever set up this barbaric, callous and Kafka- esque system should be beaten with Gunn and Moore cricket bats until they’re properly disabled.


Then made to go through their own evil labyrinth of humiliation.


Private Eye are a good listener by the way.

I realise your post may be an attempt at humour but the whole idea behind any welfare assessment is to identify those who need assistance and those that don't. If you think it's easy try devising an assessment of your own, you'll find it impossible to be fair to all whilst weeding out the blaggers. What's missing in these assessments IMO is the ability for the assessor to use common sense and form an opinion, they used to be able to do that many years ago but no longer.

On my WPS assessments, the Drs (not all assessors are Doctors) used exactly the same process as was used for my PIP assessments but handled the questions, observations and mobility assessments and even their approach very differently. I got my WP and subsequent deterioration and also got my PIP care, my WP because the Drs (IMO) used their common sense) and my PIP because I studied the question set and related it to the problems I had on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

 

[dun_n_dusted]

Or the CCTV camera on the door moved to watch the road crossing, mind you don’t limp away from the speeding cars too quickly, and the lift turned off with a small handwritten note on the other wall telling you to ring for it to be switched on if you can’t do the stairs Limp up the stairs? Fail assessment.

It’s a box tick process with targets of percentages to fail.

On my assessment to move from DLA Care to PIP Care, the assessment centre was easy to get to but the car park was directly outside the part of the building used for the assessments. The office the Health Care Professionals used completely overlooked the car park so you were overlooked from driving in to driving out. What they failed to realise though was they left the door between the waiting room and their office fully open so patients could see them watching people approaching the building, not much use to those already in but word seems to get around the disabled community very quickly!

 

[jarrod248]

My (indirect) experience leads me to think that whoever set up this barbaric, callous and Kafka- esque system should be beaten with Gunn and Moore cricket bats until they’re properly disabled.


Then made to go through their own evil labyrinth of humiliation.


Private Eye are a good listener by the way.

Wasn’t it Labour?
System seems fair to me if people know the points and get help filling out the forms.