ATO/AT Question

Discussion in 'RLC' started by Boxy, Oct 12, 2010.

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  1. I'm looking for the correct sequence of events relating to the disposal of the 'para illum schermuly' thing when it doesn't fire...can one of the resident SMEs point me to the right part of Pam 21 or Pam 13 as I can't find anything.

  2. Are you still holding it?
  3. Pam 21, 3-14, Para 0342

    d. Once the flare is prepared for firing it is to be kept pointing in a safe direction
    with the base held away from the body:
    (1) Rocket Flare. Once the pin is removed from the bottom plate the
    flare is to be fired or destroyed as a blind.
    (2) Rocket Hand Fired. The flare can be reconstituted once prepared.
    However this flare should always be used first if one is required.
    e. A misfired or damaged flare is to be destroyed as a blind in accordance with
    the procedures laid down in Chapter 14.

    PAM 21 Chap 14

    1412. Blinds. When any ammunition, missile, explosive charge, pyrotechnic or
    training device is thrown or fired, but fails to function, it is called a ‘blind’. During
    training, blinds must be found and destroyed as they occur, unless they lie within a
    closed target area.

    1415. Range Orders specify special procedures for the reporting and destruction of
    blinds. Normally, however, qualified RCOs are responsible for the destruction of all
    blinds which occur during their allocated period on a range. In accordance with
    Range Orders or unit SOPs a certificate is to be signed by the RCO that all blinds have
    been destroyed or that ‘failure to locate a blind’ procedure has been taken (see
    Section 5 of this chapter, Unlocated or Buried Ammunition Natures).

    It wasn't hard to find! FYI, SA(A)90 Range Qual Pers are trained to detonate blinds (Pryo) as long as your Regt have a Det kit.

    Read Pam 21 Chap 14 for more Info.
  4. Fortunately no.
  5. The correct sequence of events is to:

    1. Stare at the schermuly.
    2. Tap it aggresively on your helmet
    3. Stare at the business end whilst shaking it and banging the base with your other hand
    4. Put it on the floor and retreat to a safe distance
    5. Find a suitable rock (8lbs or greater) and drop it onto schermuly
    6. Dismantle schermuly with the leatherman that you have had attached to your stable belt for 8 years

    All powdery bits should be thrown onto a fire, parachuty bit can be used as bum wad, all other bits are to be discarded.

    You are now a high threat throbenator and your tales of derring do can be recounted (only after 3.2 beers) to the nearest fat slapper who'll listen to you for more than 34 seconds.

    Remember kids, follow the firework code. All fireworks should be kept in an old 'quality street tin'. Use a fuse. Never point double air bomb repeaters at the kids from 5th form (wedgies hurt). Rockets shouldn't be jammed upside down into a cow pat unless you have reached the 'safe' distance of at least 15 metres. Rockets should only be launched (from drain pipe bazookas) in the general direction of children who aren't as hard as you. Screw cap bottles half filled with petrol and left on the bonfire are far better than any firework you'll ever find in a shop.
  6. May I add also, ensure that the firework planted in your lawn falls over and sprays the crowd of friends and their children with sparks and fiery bits!!
  7. Thanks, I'd found all that but was looking for something along the lines of what's written in Paras 14104 & 14105.
  8. There you go, end of the AT trade, why are we needed when we have all the experts on here?

    Boxy, are you asking because you will be using rocket hand fired illuminating parachute on an up and coming exercise?

    Or, have you had a blind and are asking as an afterthought?
  9. I am out soon and also because someone else recently had a blind and after going through Pam21 he couldn't find anything other than as laid down in the Pam, as noted above and call ATO in.

    I'm looking at putting a crib sheet together with 'actions on' misfires lifted straight from the Pam but as I said above although it has stuff such as;

    " A tripflare that fails to ignite is to be treated as a blind and the following procedure taken:

    a. Disconnect the tripwire from the outer picket.
    b. Stand at least 3 metres away, jerk the wire several times to try and ignite the flare......."

    there is nothing like wait times for the para illum, but I suppose if it doesn't go whoosh wait 30mins which seems to be the standard then cordon and call ATO. I was looking for it in print though, for a 'cut & Paste'

    OK, a close re-read of Pam13 states hold for 30seconds then dispose as in our case call ATO
  10. There should be a RASP for the exercise/ranges, actions on and contact details for the nearest ATO should be contained within the RASP.

    For all ammunition and explosives blinds or misfires, apply 30 mins safe wait then destroy as per the extant pamphlet.

    ATO should only be requested if a blind or misfire cannot be destroyed safely.
  11. Thanks Dingerr, since we don't have the correctly qual'ed people in the team or the kit for that matter it's a " call ATO" job.
  12. Dems boxes are easy enough to get hold of. They can be requested on an ammunition demand and do not come off any ammunition entitlement.

    I find it strange that there are no qualified personnel on the exercise. I would double check Pam 21 to ensure that the exercise is conducted within regulations.

    If you have an accident involving ammo - regardless of how significant you think it is - inform the JSEODOC immediately, it is manned 24hrs.
  13. Its funny how this question/thread hasnt resulted in any of the usual "use the search function you fcking mong" type replies.

    And also very noticeable.

  14. Regular_Imbiber,

    The OP asked a specific question and if you bothered to use the search function yourself you will find there is only one other thread (by the same OP), on this subject.
    The "use the search function you fcking mong" type replies come about when someone asks a question that has already been asked (and answered) multiple times.

    If it makes you happy, can I be the first to say to Boxy "Don't post the same question on multiple forums you fcking mong".

  15. The OP's question would be equally relevant on the SASC thread.