Asymmetric warfare, terrorism, and Daesh.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Resasi, Jul 26, 2016.

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  1. Your difficulty to read, lack of response to specific points made, and personal attacks rather than address the main topic, indicate your unsuitability to discuss the issue sensibly.

    Possibly a sensitive issue with you personally. Any hint of criticism of the Muslim faith and the outdated aspects of some of it’s teachings, brings you immediately into full defensive mode.

    A young man on a recent radio program pointed out while interviewing a young Muslim woman from Birmingham, that her staunch belief in Sharia, the stoning of adulterous women death sentence for apostasy, amputation of limbs, are not Western values.

    She seemed completely moderate, protesting her Britishness, and that she did not believe in terrorism but in dialogue. He upon further questioning then pointed the inconsistency, with her complete acceptance of aspects in her religion that are simply not acceptable in the West.

    It is indeed a massively complex problem, and a deadly one. The violent rioting by muslims demanding death to cartoonists, and implementation of sharia law, have been replaced. Unfortunately by a far more serious issue that is costing this country millions in taxpayers money, and the erosion of freedoms in order to try and control it.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
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  2. Fairly interesting, if what simplified view of critics of Islamists. I recognised what he was trying to say here though:

    Pro-Christian Right Anti-Muslim Groups and Far-Right Jewish Groups consist mostly of Far-Right activists, Jewish or Christian, who believe that there is a cosmic war between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. They tend to view all Muslims as fanatics and terrorists. Some of them consider the prophet of Islam to be the Antichrist and may believe there is a connection between Islam and satanism. They generally hold negative views about other immigrant or minorities too; Ann Coulter is a prominent example of this tendency.

    They usually view fundamentalism as the only true form of Islam, going so far as to accuse Muslims who are not fundamentalists of lying or of practicing Taqyia (lying in defense of the faith). Many in this group trade in utterly counterfactual conspiracy theories—for example, that all Muslim Americans want to impose Sharia law or want to convert Europe into “EuroArabia.”
    The author appears to have a slightly US-centric view of the debate so there are a few culturalisms that I don't get and likewise, there are non-US factors that he appears to miss. What he says in the 2nd para I pasted about viewing fundamentalism as the only true form of Islam is something that I've also been saying; only bigots and Islamists believe all Muslims must be violent and intent on ruling the world.
  3. Forgive me for becoming exasperated with responding to the total garbage that you continually smear all over this forum on this subject. I've tried to explain to you calmly and reasonably, taking account of what kind of audience you are, about certain aspects that you might not be aware of or that I feel you are overly focussing on but it just goes straight over your head.

    I've no idea what you are trying to achieve with the constant screeds of misinformation and opinion that you keep on posting but it's certainly not debate, perhaps you looking for likeminded, curious people to agree with you or maybe you're trying to convince people that you really are a steaming pudding.

    As for your anecdote about the radio interviewee, you do realise that extremists never call themselves extremists as they know they'll be instantly discredited, yes? Ffs, Anjem Choudhury made a career from successfully convincing the f uckwits at the BBC that he spoke for 'moderate Islam'. The only person this woman seems to have fooled is you.

    If you were geniune in your concern for the taxpayers burden in dealing with Islamism and Islamist terrorism, you'd stop being such a misinformed phallus, do some research at the very least, consider what people are telling you.
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  4. Not a single word in your above post is to do with the subject matter, just more personal attacks. Quite frankly childish abuse that do not reflect particularly well on either you as a person, your intellect, or to your attention to the forum etiquette of play the ball and not the man. Probably a saying that has escaped both your attention and comprehension, and of your fanboy Hector.

    Your exasperation likely to be due to your personal feelings on Islam, and the fact that you feel it is not being viewed with the exaggerated respect most of the more dedicated followers demand of it from all others.

    Most of the posting made by me on the thread are fact to do with the ongoing and very real threat posed by Islamist terrorism, daesh, their threats and actions, not personal observation. So much for your comments about total garbage.

    The various taxpayers, not just of this country have suffered not just loss of life, but billions in taxes, huge inconvenience and time, directly due the many and various security precautions against the violent nature of the various Islamic Jihadist acts carried out globally.

    Ongoing violence directly attributable to Islamic terrorism, both here and in Europe continues. A fact that seems conspicuously absent from your attention in nearly all your postings on this thread.
  5. I have no problem criticising any religion.

    Your posts aren't about Islamism and IS; your posts are about 'the threat from Islam' and how 'Muslims' are all going to kill us in our beds because that is what is says in the Quran and they all behave in uniform. It's been explained to you so many times that your inability to understand it makes me think that you're not here for the debate or exchange of ideas.

    And you can dry your eyes. If I was making personal attacks against you I'd ask you if your job in the RAF was to make propeller noises, commensurate with your apparent intelligence levels.
  6. Your pointless, incorrect, personal and abusive replies, contribute nothing and really do not belong on this thread. My previous service job was Royal Marines not RAF. Yours, other than your failed attempt to join the police? Your interests...more along the lines of this it seems.

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  7. Brotherton Lad

    Brotherton Lad LE Reviewer

    It's perfectly clear that Islam has an equal amount of disagreement within its followers as does Christianity.
  8. Possibly with a lower death toll between disagreements within the Christian community in recent times?
  9. Brotherton Lad

    Brotherton Lad LE Reviewer

    Recently, yes.
  10. Define 'recent'?
    Yugoslavian genocide- Orthodox Christians on Muslims
    Rwanda- Christian on Christian/Muslim
    Darfur- Muslims on Christians
    Iraq -IS on everyone
    Myanmar- Buddhists on Muslims

    A far more common cause of violence is tribalism and lifestyle differences between farmers and herders, squabbling over grazing land.

    It is far too simplistic to just say- "It's The Muslims, innit.", because, as I have pointed out to you on so many occasions, there is no 'The Muslims' .

    There are LOTS of Muslims, and it is absolute folly to think that the interests of a Gulf Arab are going to be anything like a Indonesian from Aceh or a Uighur from China. Most of them can't even read the Koran in Arabic and have to memorise it.

    The extremism of IS speaks to some, but what you just aren't getting is that it doesn't speak to all. IS have nothing to say to a Shia, or Ismaili. If anything, they want to kill them the most.
    What IS was selling was a warped form of hope and utopian dreaming of a 'holy land' where the permanent losers of the world could go and be valued for the only thing they had-Piety.
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  11. And the theme of this thread is when that is bought over here to the West.

    It is current affairs Hector.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  12. No, that's what YOU think it is, because you project your simplistic black and white view of the world onto things that you clearly don't, won't or can't understand.

    Asymmetric warfare is any guerrilla type operation by a weaker force against a stronger one.
    Terrorism isn't Asymmetric warfare.
    Daesh are merely one of many armed groups in the world.
  13. Hector I refer you to the title of the thread.
  14. As do I .

    No mention of returning IS fighters to the UK. Nothing about legal and security measures needed to keep track of them. Nothing about intelligence gathering from debriefing them. Nothing about deradicalisation.

    Three topics in the thread title, none of them about your personal hobby horse.

    Remember what I said about you projecting your simplistic views on things?
  15. Took a while but read through the full thread, your posts, mine, and BAP’s. In the main most. though not all do remain on track, the subject of daesh terrorism in Europe, the return of fighters, and what can be done about future attacks.

    This is unfortunately to do with the religion, interpretation of the teaching of that religion, and sympathies within some sectors of the population here who practice that religion. Something you acknowledged in your post No 49.

    "The problem is, who do you nuke?
    The terrified hostage population of Raqqa, for a crime committed by (probably) a North African third generation immigrant with a French passport who has possibly never left France but has watched some videos?

    Islamic State and AQ are not nation states so much as a malignant philosophy applied to religion, and one that is more focused on killing other Muslims first and foremost.

    Now this is not 'The Religion of Peace' thing-it's an asymmetric warfare thing, where the enemy don't need to send commandos or Active Service Units and all that good 20th century stuff we know how to deal with.

    What they seem to have discovered is how to militarise their propaganda to an unheard of degree, and turn into a mental computer virus. -What some people call a 'Meme'. Most propaganda and advertising is pretty ineffective, but theirs is not. It can provoke rapid and violent behavioural changes in intelligent and educated people, let alone the sub-criminal trash.
    You can't police or monitor what goes on between someone's ears. That is the battlefield that they are exploiting. They are winning "Hearts and Minds" over the Internet.

    The more you bear down on them with the apparatus of the State, the more resentful and bitter they become, and the more receptive to the radicals propaganda.

    I suspect that the only way to address this would be to spend a lot of money on purging the mosques of imported Imams and replace them with vetted home trained ones, and mass deportations of radicals to places far away from the homeland (I am sure there are a few insalubrious spots on the map where such characters can live their Islamic ideal lifestyles in peace-up until the point that they beg to come home.)

    The people the Security Services need to be speaking to are religious historians who can remember how the various Christian sects fought their ideological wars during the 16th and 17th centuries.”

    Your comments that their message ...can provoke rapid and violent behavioural changes in intelligent and educated people, let alone the sub-criminal trash... is what is being worried about, and certainly is the problem we face in this country.

    A problem that is daesh inspired, and actively provoked by them, either from abroad, or by returnees who have the express intent of carrying out revenge attacks. Fostered by radical Imams who also spread the message.

    A problem that is perhaps exacerbated by the fact that they can and do point out these teaching and messages in the Koran, and in sharia law, that call on followers to act in certain ways.

    Unfortunately your proposal ..mass deportations of radicals to places far away from the homeland (I am sure there are a few insalubrious spots on the map where such characters can live their Islamic ideal lifestyles in peace-up until the point that they beg to come home.)...though a good solution, is not possible under the laws of this country.

    So much for simplistic, but unrealistic solutions. This thread is not a personal hobby horse, simply about a real and present islamic terrorist danger that strikes at random, killing passers by in a completely indiscriminate manner over a twisted and outdated concept, that is being actively used by daesh in a group of people who follow a particular creed.

    A relevent thread about ongoing acts by IS, and has just happened again.
    Manhattan truck attack kills 8 in 'act of terror' - CNN
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017