Asymmetric warfare, terrorism, and Daesh.

One thing you must remember is the incredible racism in Muslim countries.
Black skin is not necessarily an advantage in dealing with predominantly Arab groups.
Probably one of the reasons they fight so well is that they have nowhere to hide in the Middle East. They can't slope off to live with relatives.
Indeed, which is quite funny given what is said the final sermon of the Prophet.

"O people! Indeed, your Lord is one and your father is one. Indeed, there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white over a black, nor a black over a white, except by taqwa. Have I conveyed the message?"
Never let scripture get in the way of convenience!
 
Just read that the reason daesh are being thrown off buildings or shot in the head is because the Iraqi forces who capture them feel that they could buy freedom if sent into prison. Confidence in Government integrity it seems is not yet fully in place.

Given the historical record of Iraqi authorities this would seem a fairly pragmatic approach.

Over here the cost savings in a dead terrorist, when compared with resuscitation, trial, prison, rehabilitation, and ongoing demands for compensation, would indicate that the economic approach to counter-terrorism over here is the SAS method.With a similar outcome. (The high building method is not standard practice here.)

If this sounds a tad severe it could be that the soft pc bunny hugging approach has simply excacerbated the problem and a slightly more robust approach is necessary.
 
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Just read that the reason daesh are being thrown off buildings or shot in the head is because the Iraqi forces who capture them feel that they could buy freedom if sent into prison. Confidence in Government integrity it seems is not yet fully in place.

Given the historical record of Iraqi authorities this would seem a fairly pragmatic approach.

Over here the cost savings in a dead terrorist, when compared with resuscitation, trial, prison, rehabilitation, and ongoing demands for compensation, would indicate that the economic approach to counter-terrorism over here is the SAS method.With a similar outcome. (The high building method is not standard practice here.)

If this sounds a tad severe it could be that the soft pc bunny hugging approach has simply excacerbated the problem and a slightly more robust approach is necessary.
I would guess that a fair number of those being chucked off buildings (known as 'murdered' to most of us) may not have been active or willing IS members, but just belong to the wrong tribe, and their property is then looted, and are just part of a spot of ethnic cleansing.

Another reason is the local tradition of blood feuds. The tribal structures that used to control these have broken down, and IS compromised some tribes and they are now going to be perpetually at war with their neighbours, and a permanent pool of recruits.

Blood money compensation was a key part in controlling feuds, so preventing this form of restitution is feeding an out of control vendetta culture.

Article from 2015 already identifying these trends.

As Extremists Withdraw in Salahaddin, Iraq's Tribes Demand Justice

Some of the residents of the former IS-held territory suggest there are more sinister motives afoot too. “Over the past ten months, a policy has developed here that allows others to seize our property – orchards, houses, irrigation channels and anything that can be sold,” says Abu Safwan al-Azzawi, one of the locals. “Others wish to change the demographics of this area,” he suggests, “and it's actually all about who controls the most fertile land on the banks of the Tigris river as well as sectarian politics. The local tribes are using the Shiite Muslim militias to prevent locals returning to their homes for that reason.”
 
Either way the inducement remains for some to try a new place that frowns on this sort of behaviour. Unfortunately some just can’t seem to leave that behind, and then try it here.
 
Either way the inducement remains for some to try a new place that frowns on this sort of behaviour. Unfortunately some just can’t seem to leave that behind, and then try it here.
Being murdered by sectarian militiamen is an inducement to go somewhere else.
Oddly enough,

To stay in the UK as a refugee you must be unable to live safely in any part of your own country because you fear persecution there.

If you’re stateless, your own country is the country you usually live in.

This persecution must be because of:

  • your race
  • your religion
  • your nationality
  • your political opinion
  • anything else that puts you at risk because of the social, cultural, religious or political situation in your country, for example, your gender, gender identity or sexual orientation
You must have failed to get protection from authorities in your own country.
Claim asylum in the UK: Eligibility - GOV.UK

So, being chucked off a multi storey by State sponsored militiamen or Regular forces seems to tick all the boxes.
So, they will come here and claim asylum because their Government is following PRECISELY the course of action that you seem to be recommending at #682?

If your problem is with them coming here, then you should take that up with the militias throwing people off buildings.

In short, it appears that although the warfighting may be nearly over, the much harder and longer phase of 'winning the peace' has yet to be started.
 
If your problem is with them coming here, then you should take that up with the militias throwing people off buildings.

In short, it appears that although the warfighting may be nearly over, the much harder and longer phase of 'winning the peace' has yet to be started.
Hmm 'Not my part of ship Chief, I’m radar'...but, as the thread suggests, it is in fact a common problem faced here and in Europe, and even more so with the warfighting nearly over, and their stated objectives and intentions of bring their fight here.

A fact which, as we have seen, has already started. Hence the thread.
 
Hmm 'Not my part of ship Chief, I’m radar'...but, as the thread suggests, it is in fact a common problem faced here and in Europe, and even more so with the warfighting nearly over, and their stated objectives and intentions of bring their fight here.

A fact which, as we have seen, has already started. Hence the thread.
I would dispute it is "their" fight.
Through most of the 20th century we have seen wave after wave of refugees, many of them indoctrinated from birth by horrible regimes and many of them complicit in atrocities.
Once out of that environment, however, apart from a few die hards and subversives the vast majority of them seem to have left it all behind.
What is interesting is the lack of enthusiasm amongst our refugee population for continuing their conflicts on our streets.

You have your true refugee, albeit those who may have taken part in IS rule, and you have the active IS insurgents who are seeking to hide within them.
I would guess that the true refugees might be the ones most willing to turn in the false ones.
 
the vast majority of them seem to have left it all behind.
While that is true, the minuscule numbers required to create massive chaos and damage is the ongoing concern.

I would guess that the true refugees might be the ones most willing to turn in the false ones.
A perfectly logical guess, however peer pressure and the fear of ‘their type’ of retribution remain powerful disincentives.
 
While that is true, the minuscule numbers required to create massive chaos and damage is the ongoing concern.


A perfectly logical guess, however peer pressure and the fear of ‘their type’ of retribution remain powerful disincentives.
Well, is chucking everyone suspicious off a roof a productive way of dealing with a small number of threats, however potent?
The same argument could have been used for Blackshirts, communists, IRA, etc.

And peer pressure works both ways.

There's a lot of established refugees in this country who aren't going to want to get dragged into foreign messes, and don't want their residency jeopardised with. Easy for them to pick up a phone and grass up the dodgy character.

The threat is a small number of IS activists, but far more of the self radicalised home grown version.

I'll say this again.- Winning the peace is the hard part, and somehow that will involve deprogramming and coming to some sort of acceptance with individuals who may have done some horrible things, but who given the chance, won't do them again.
If they have no option but victory or death. then that's what you will get. Fighting and corpses.on both sides.
 
Part of that acceptance being that they do not come back to this country.
Fair enough.
What about the non British contingent?
Are you going to keep them out as well?
In fact, just where are you proposing to draw the line between chucking people off roofs and offering asylum?
Because of you aren't offering ANYTHING except being murdered, then you have given them no incentive to come in with their hands up.
 
Lets just for the record get back to the thread topic. I am not advocating any chucking off rooftops etc, or offering ANYTHING to ANYBODY, the fact that the Iraqis and daesh are doing that to each other on both sides as I said before simply shows a mind set and of events taking place.

Asylum guidelines should be certainly more stringent that Merkel’s 'come one come all' and the EU’s 'freedom of movement’ of huge blocks of unmonitored humanity.

Are former daesh participants to be denied entry? An unqualified yes might be a suggestion. They made a lifestyle choice which included their death as part of their participation. Let that happen wherever else they choose to relocate to. It should however be a disqualification for entry/re-entry to the UK, in my opinion. HM Immigration authorities, and security services will however be making that call.
 
It would appear from recent evidence that the threat remains real and that the Al Kharsa Brigade was specifically formed for the purpose of infiltrating back into Europe and the UK for these asymmetric warfare terror attacks.

Although some may believe that daesh has been contained...
Fighters from Isil’s ‘terrorist unit’ can no longer escape from Syria to carry out attacks in Europe

...during the unit’s existence it will undoubtedly have already infiltrated member back to Europe and the UK.
Isis unit in Syria are preparing British jihadis to attack the UK

The authorities are well aware of this, however the sheer numbers of refugees that are coming in means that the number of potential extremists jihadis are almost impossible to monitor. Any that have been confirmed in any way to have been associated with daesh should be permanently barred from re-entry.

There is of course the present ongoing potential for emotional grief-mongering with the young German girl whose case is in news. No doubt there will be a wave of calls for her to be returned despite her undoubted willing involvement.
 
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The terrible events in Madrid simply confirm the daesh threat is ongoing.

There are huge difficulties in preventing this sort of attack is and nowhere can be considered truly safe.

Some steps that can be taken if one does become involved in a situation that does occur.

1. Immediately move out of the line of movement of an attacking vehicle.
2. Give immediate warning to surrounding pedestrians.
3. Run at a right angles away from the vehicle.
4. Try to put any nearby objects such as buildings, trees, lampposts, fire hydrants, garbage bins between yourself and the vehicle or attacker.
5. If possible avoid running with the crowd. Attacking vehicles tend to aim to target large groups
6. As soon as possible, notify law enforcement.
7. Seek hardened shelter until “all clear” is announced as the driver and or passengers may exit a disabled vehicle and begin attacking on foot with weapons.

Vehicular Terrorism - G4s
 
The long term inbuilt mindset of Islam will unfortunately not be effected by sterilisation of individuals.

While there remains the long term concept of the superiority of Islam, coupled with the suppression and eradication of any other religion and its followers by violent means, there will remain a problem.
 
Worlds largest microwave, 7000lts lets see...that’s 7cubic metres or 247 cubic feet.
NetComposites Now: World’s Largest Industrial Composite Microwave System

How many would fit?
How many journalists can you fit into one square metre? - Macleans.ca
So around nine adults with plenty of room.

That was adults. With kids the number went up to around 23.
Kelvin Road School Blog: How Many Children Fit into a Square Metre?

But since the median age is around 29, with a number of terrorists in their teens, if one were to squeeze a bit you could get around 18-20.

But since that is a sort of daesh type behaviour, it won’t happen and the general public can expect to be told that rehabilitation and being more accommodating and inclusive is the way forward.

We have to set an example.
 
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Last Thursday, El Periódico a Catalan newspaper reported that as long as two months ago, the CIA alerted the Mossos d’Esquadra, the autonomous police and security service of Catalonia, that there might be a terrorist attack by daesh and mentioned La Ramblas as a possible main target.

Daesh had already directed threats against Spain El Periódico said. Daesh “considered themselves obligated to re-establish Islam” in areas ruled by Muslim leaders in the past. Spain and Portugal also known as Al-Andalus, were ruled by a succession of Muslim caliphs.

The Spanish daily had also reported that a Twitter account associated with the Islamic State issued several warnings against Spain two weeks ago on July 30, when the account twitted a series of messages that read: “We will implement the caliphate in Spain and recover our land. Impending attack on Al-Andalus, God willing."

It is now being reported that the Secretary of State for Security in Spain has instructed police and the Civil Guard to increase security measures after the attacks in Catalonia and tighten controls in squares, promenades and pedestrian zones.

They are to intensify the random controls of people and vehicles in places of greatest density, increase the presence of police vehicles at strategic points of those zone like entrances, exits or intersections, and that Police checks in the Spanish-French border area intensify.

It also emphasised the need to increase channels of collaboration with local police and to further incorporate the capabilities of these bodies to measures already being taken in the Anti-Terrorism Prevention and Protection Plan.

The Government...
Defence and Security Accelerator - GOV.UK
...police,
UK police arrest man picked out from the crowd in real time by automatic facial recognition system | Privacy Online News
...security services,
Face Recognition
...and miliary,
SAS on alert for UK Bank Holiday terror attacks after ‘gathering high-level intelligence’
... in the UK have already demonstrated their readiness.

In London the next large open air event approaching is the Notting Hill Carnival. With around two million attendees expected it is a difficult event to monitor and police at the best of times. Let us hope that it passes peacefully.

The possibility of undercover personnel who are highly trained in the use of fast highly accurate lethal incapacitation, following known suspects who show up at big events has to be a reassuring step.

Though not an ideal resolution, given the civil liberty/human rights constraints our society affords everyone here, it is a step up from just having highly visible armed police in the area who any potential terrorist might try to avoid.

The threat is real, here, and the increased uses of technology, techniques and resources being used to combat cannot eradicate it, but is reassuring.
 
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The Notting Hill Carnival has passed.

Peacefully? Perhaps not.

Numbers of police injured in the line of duty has risen again. None however ascribed to terrorism.
 

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