Asymmetric warfare, terrorism, and Daesh.

#1
Terrorist atrocities in Europe are on a rapid increase, many of which are claimed by, and in many cases at least found to be inspired by daesh/ISIL/ISIS. As their actual physical presence in Iraq and Syria continues to be degraded, their dystopian vision and aims seem now to be morphing into a more difficult to control form of asymmetric warfare within those countries that have actively been opposing it.

There are a number of threads that cover both its activities, and recent actions within Europe, but it now seems, having tried to establish a Caliphate that is now shrinking, we will see a greater emphasis on what happens as some of its disciples now try to disperse back to where they came from.

They have been assiduously preparing the ground, an extremely interesting talk by Lt. Gen Sir Graeme Lamb covered this in 2013...
...though fairly long it covered almost presciently what European Governments are now facing within their own borders, and the difficulties faced given the force multiplication for both good, and in daesh’s case for evil, by the internet and social media.

Given the tensions created by the ongoing immigrant crisis in Europe, between cultures and religions, there presently exists a large capacity for them to exploit this and create major upheaval. To combat this, we in all probability, seeing a continuing increase in ‘Emergency powers’ by successive Governments, as the freedoms we enjoy facilitate their twisted agenda.

Hopefully not as draconian as those presently being employed by Turkey.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
A very interesting and timely topic, given the situation in various European countries at the moment. I’d like to slightly alter one of the statements in your post: “Given the tensions being intentionally created by the media on the ongoing immigrant crisis in Europe, between cultures and religions, there presently exists a large capacity for them to exploit this and create major upheaval.

I find it notable that most of the attacks being carried out are by “home-grown” wallahs. I’ve yet to hear of a bunch of IS fellas infiltrating a country in force and doing anything. Another noteworthy feature is that the attacks are being carried out by predominantly well-educated folks and not by the semi-illiterate. The combination of the media constantly sensationalising the issue and the fact that almost all of the “attackers” come from largely marginalised and often harassed sections of society indicates that the boiling resentment that they, and previous generations, have felt at not being given a fair crack of the whip in the societies in which they live has given them a “new hook to hang their hats on”. What I mean is that, whereas beforehand they could only take out their, entirely understandable, frustrations with sporadic attacks on the Old Bill or “posh folks” in their respective countries, they’ve now found a new “cause”. Perhaps it’s an indication of their desperation at ever being taken seriously that they’re willing to die for their new-found “cause”. A sort of aim or direction in life, as it were, that, finally allows them to strike back at those they consider responsible for their situation.

MsG
 
#4
A very interesting and timely topic, given the situation in various European countries at the moment. I’d like to slightly alter one of the statements in your post: “Given the tensions being intentionally created by the media on the ongoing immigrant crisis in Europe, between cultures and religions, there presently exists a large capacity for them to exploit this and create major upheaval.

I find it notable that most of the attacks being carried out are by “home-grown” wallahs. I’ve yet to hear of a bunch of IS fellas infiltrating a country in force and doing anything. Another noteworthy feature is that the attacks are being carried out by predominantly well-educated folks and not by the semi-illiterate. The combination of the media constantly sensationalising the issue and the fact that almost all of the “attackers” come from largely marginalised and often harassed sections of society indicates that the boiling resentment that they, and previous generations, have felt at not being given a fair crack of the whip in the societies in which they live has given them a “new hook to hang their hats on”. What I mean is that, whereas beforehand they could only take out their, entirely understandable, frustrations with sporadic attacks on the Old Bill or “posh folks” in their respective countries, they’ve now found a new “cause”. Perhaps it’s an indication of their desperation at ever being taken seriously that they’re willing to die for their new-found “cause”. A sort of aim or direction in life, as it were, that, finally allows them to strike back at those they consider responsible for their situation.

MsG
A murderer is a murderer.

Any attempts at justifying or excusing the actions of murderers (especially mass murderers or those murdering in the name of religion) should quite rightly fall on deaf ears.

If they want to publicly winge and protest they should crack on.
 
#5
Terrorist atrocities in Europe are on a rapid increase, many of which are claimed by, and in many cases at least found to be inspired by daesh/ISIL/ISIS. As their actual physical presence in Iraq and Syria continues to be degraded, their dystopian vision and aims seem now to be morphing into a more difficult to control form of asymmetric warfare within those countries that have actively been opposing it.

There are a number of threads that cover both its activities, and recent actions within Europe, but it now seems, having tried to establish a Caliphate that is now shrinking, we will see a greater emphasis on what happens as some of its disciples now try to disperse back to where they came from.

They have been assiduously preparing the ground, an extremely interesting talk by Lt. Gen Sir Graeme Lamb covered this in 2013...
...though fairly long it covered almost presciently what European Governments are now facing within their own borders, and the difficulties faced given the force multiplication for both good, and in daesh’s case for evil, by the internet and social media.

Given the tensions created by the ongoing immigrant crisis in Europe, between cultures and religions, there presently exists a large capacity for them to exploit this and create major upheaval. To combat this, we in all probability, seeing a continuing increase in ‘Emergency powers’ by successive Governments, as the freedoms we enjoy facilitate their twisted agenda.

Hopefully not as draconian as those presently being employed by Turkey.

Have you finished editing?
 
#6
If the effect of these atrocities is to force a rethink in the West's quite chaotic foreign policies regarding the Middle East (in which I've been a willing executioner I admit) then it will be a good thing. Unfortunately, it seems that, as usual we will sink into ever more prescriptive 'security' to treat the symptoms rather than address root causes.

Make no mistake, defeating radical Islam will take more than guns and bullets, it's the idea that has to be destroyed and it's the ordinary Muslims that must do it.

Think on how long it took to return NI to 'normality', and the sacrifices! And even now the lid is barely on and some schools on both sides still encourage division.

Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
A murderer is a murderer.

Any attempts at justifying or excusing the actions of murderers (especially mass murderers or those murdering in the name of religion) should quite rightly fall on deaf ears.

If they want to publicly winge and protest they should crack on.
I agree absolutely and I made no attempt to justify or excuse their actions. What I was trying to express was that without some radical change in the way we run our societies, there will always be some group that will rise up, not necessarily in the name of religion, but certainly to gain attention for the plight that they perceive themselves to be in. And the root cause of that is the inequality in our societies and cultures. That's what we should all be working on.

MsG
 
#8
I agree absolutely and I made no attempt to justify or excuse their actions. What I was trying to express was that without some radical change in the way we run our societies, there will always be some group that will rise up, not necessarily in the name of religion, but certainly to gain attention for the plight that they perceive themselves to be in. And the root cause of that is the inequality in our societies and cultures. That's what we should all be working on.

MsG
I wouldn't necessarily say it's the inequality, more the exclusion/segregation of certain groups; this can then lead to the feeling of ostracism which provides an excellent breeding ground for radicalisation.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
I wouldn't necessarily say it's the inequality, more the perceived exclusion/segregation of certain groups; this can then lead to the feeling of ostracism which provides an excellent breeding ground for radicalisation.
My edit in Bold. In the same way that the media can be accused of creating the immigration crisis, just because someone thinks they are being oppressed, doesn't they actually are... All it takes is a very persuasive talker.
 
#10
They have been assiduously preparing the ground, an extremely interesting talk by Lt. Gen Sir Graeme Lamb covered this in 2013...
...though fairly long it covered almost presciently what European Governments are now facing within their own borders, and the difficulties faced given the force multiplication for both good, and in daesh’s case for evil, by the internet and social media.

.
I saw this when I was watching videos given by Palantir at the conference as well (which are worth watching).

I very much enjoyed his argument, and came away from it supremely depressed (from my owkr perspective) as I could not think of one current senior police officer capable of such a broad brush analysis setting the agenda.

I had the privilege of hearing David Venessential speak at RUSI, and that was the best I heard from a police leader. And he was succeeded by Andy Hayman, and look at how he performed in front of the Home Affairs select committee!
 
#11
I wouldn't necessarily say it's the inequality, more the exclusion/segregation of certain groups; this can then lead to the feeling of ostracism which provides an excellent breeding ground for radicalisation.
We have bent over backwards to accommodate muslims. The only exclusion and segregation is self imposed.
 
#12
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" or words to that effect, spring to mind.

And if you appease, you have neither liberty or security....



"…But our great security lies, I think, in our growing strength, both in numbers and wealth; … unless, by a neglect of military discipline, we should lose all martial spirit …; for there is much truth in the Italian saying, Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.…"
 
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Schaden

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
#13
Well I could go into the ways of terrorising the terrorists - but you lot would have a conniption while making wailing noises of angiush at how terrible it all is.
 
#14
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" or words to that effect, spring to mind.
I agree absolutely but politicians either feel compelled to do something, whatever that may be or use it as an excuse to further their own aims. The end justifies the means, or so they think.
 
#17
We have bent over backwards to accommodate muslims. The only exclusion and segregation is self imposed.
I would say that we have done so in general terms. It's also true to say that immigrants have been met with the normal wave of racism regardless. I doubt if many on here who espouse a generalist hatred towards Muslims in general rather than Muslim extremists in particular had a different or 'positive' view towards them before they migrated here, or before there were any attacks.
 
#18
We have bent over backwards to accommodate muslims. The only exclusion and segregation is self imposed.

40 odd years ago, when I went as a self- employed plumber, in Manchester, I had no perceptions at all........

The only "different" people were West Indians, and I enjoyed their company...... good people.

That was when the asian muslims started to appear........not good people.

They wouldn't pay, were arrogant twats, never made any attempt to fit in or behave honestly.

THEY DREW "FIRST BLOOD"
 

Schaden

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
#19
Surely the biggest problem is identifying them before they attack?
Well in the latest incident in france they were known to the authorities and one at least had served time for terrorist related offences - he had also tried to join Isis in Syria twice.

One wonder how much of a heads up they actually need before locking someone up.
 
#20
40 odd years ago, when I went as a self- employed plumber, in Manchester, I had no perceptions at all........

The only "different" people were West Indians, and I enjoyed their company...... good people.

That was when the asian muslims started to appear........not good people.

They wouldn't pay, were arrogant twats, never made any attempt to fit in or behave honestly.

THEY DREW "FIRST BLOOD"
You're a plumber? And you're complaining about dishonesty?
 

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