Astute Cluster F--K

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
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#4
I hope it is still under warranty so we can take it back and change for a working fit-for-purpose submarine! :threaten:
 
#5
Reading the list of faults, which seem to be a combination of design flaws and poor/falsified record keeping, I'm suprised the thing works at all, or that they can find enough volunteers to crew the beast. I understand that most submariners are a bit mad to start with, but even they must have their limits.
 
#6
Reading the list of faults, which seem to be a combination of design flaws and poor/falsified record keeping, I'm suprised the thing works at all, or that they can find enough volunteers to crew the beast. I understand that most submariners are a bit mad to start with, but even they must have their limits.
Volunteers? Hahahahahaha, have you forgot that you do as you're bloody well told.
 
#7
"been surrounded by controversy since it was first commissioned 15 years ago."

Only two have been built, HMS Astute has only been commissioned for two years whilst HMS Ambush is still going through her sea trials.

Read into that article as much as you like...
 
#8
I spent five years of my life on this at the beginning and I'd put a lot down to the shrinkage of the industrial base caused by overly long gaps between procurements. If you don't keep a full team on things then knowledge is lost but that does cost; the MOD weren"t prepared to pay. So we had to bring in people from the US instead.

I'd bet money that problems with the steam turbines are a lot to do with buying an obsolete niche technology to unique standards after at least a decade without an order.

Then you have to realise that previous classes were by no means trouble free, at least according to the old and bold, but back in the day problems could be kept out of the papers and the Cold War meant money was available.

Trouble is, if you don't spend enough to support more than one supplier you can't punish the one you have. If they then drop the business as uneconomic then that just means you never buy another one.
 
#9
Its very easy to put together a 'we're doomed' report with selective reporting which fits an agenda. I would suggest firstly, one has to look at the credentials of those quoted - if I'm not mistaken the nuclear engineers name rings a bell as being a campaigner - while we also have to remember that the first of class of new pieces of kit always have challenges and issues. Show me any complex military kit, for any nation, introduced into service where the first of class had zero defects, zero problems and went swimmingly well. If you look at most RN kit, the lead of class will always take years to get into service while all the bugs are ironed out and everything starts working properly - you're integrating a vastly complex system of moving parts weighing 8000 tonnes, with a nuclear reactor and large bomb shop and complex electronics, built after a nearly 20 year hiatus in SSN construction.
 
#10
"been surrounded by controversy since it was first commissioned 15 years ago."

Only two have been built, HMS Astute has only been commissioned for two years whilst HMS Ambush is still going through her sea trials.

Read into that article as much as you like...
What are you getting at?

The facts are only two have been finished, theres at least another 3 in build and long lead items on order for the others.

So whats your point?
 
#12
The best submarine in the world eh! At least that's what they said when it was launched. What a balls up and at such cost, it's almost unbelievable!
 
#14
I spent five years of my life on this at the beginning and I'd put a lot down to the shrinkage of the industrial base caused by overly long gaps between procurements. If you don't keep a full team on things then knowledge is lost but that does cost; the MOD weren"t prepared to pay. So we had to bring in people from the US instead.

I'd bet money that problems with the steam turbines are a lot to do with buying an obsolete niche technology to unique standards after at least a decade without an order.

Then you have to realise that previous classes were by no means trouble free, at least according to the old and bold, but back in the day problems could be kept out of the papers and the Cold War meant money was available.

Trouble is, if you don't spend enough to support more than one supplier you can't punish the one you have. If they then drop the business as uneconomic then that just means you never buy another one.
No surprises. Other than the first five years of your life being spent on this.

93% of management totally unqualified, who sustain their positions by falsifying company test and quality assurance records. The USA took some of our major manufacturers apart in the US courts on this in the early 90s. Does MOD or DTI or govt or industry learn ? Nope.
 
#15
Is this the one the Navy managed to get stuck on a sand bar? If it is then a certain amount of operator error must be present!
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
People are surprised?

"Always keep in mind that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder."
In this case she was built by the only bidder. Once again I find myself in the unusual postition of defending BAE. Astute was the first submarine built by Barrow for quite a number of years and the contract to build was repeatedly pushed back by the government of the day (I believe both parties share the blame). As a result BAE was struggling to keep the yard open and experienced workers in employment for some years. Eventually the costs got too high and they had to lay people off. Result - when they came to build Astute they'd forgotten how to, exactly what they told the government would happen.

I feel dirty now.
 
#18
I am shocked. Flooding in a naval vessel? Ferrous metal corroding after being exposed to sea water - terrible.

John Large said:
Waffle waffle waffle. Non nuclear comments. Blah blah blah. Oh, my pay cheque - Thank you!
Is this the Guardian making an early start to the "no new SSBNs" campaign....
 
#19
Astute is also 'first of class' ie almost a protertype, first of class are notorious for not being up to scratch, mind you bloody expensive trial.
 
#20
A friend of mine who is in the Royal Navy has not got a good word to say about BAE. His former ship went in for a 18 month refit and came out worse than it went in. Twelve months on the drive shafts are still not ballanced. Common rumor is that BAE is a cash cow for retired officers and those still serving sign anything off as they do not want to upset BAE as they have an eye on future employment when they retire from service.
 
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