Assault under trust

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by gobbyidiot, Nov 6, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Over the last couple of days we have had the rogue "cop" in Afghanistan and the psychiatrist in the US. This got me thinking about the West and the social norms around violence. The Glencoe Massacre was only an outrage because the soldiers (including many Campbells) took hospitality and then turned on the MacDonalds without warning. Without that it would have just been one more Highland battle. Pearl Harbor was a day that would live in the halls of infamy because the Japanese didn't declare war - which is why Truman gave them some instant sunshine in their lives.

    So, in the West, you declare yourself. You challenge people to step outside, you declare war. The assumption is that i) some disagreements are otherwise irresolvable, but ii) defeat isn't the end of the world - some life under "Christendom" and your new ruler is possible. The Normans were a bunch of c*nts but most Anglo-Saxons survived it, and we co-opted them in short order. The Royalists lost the British Civil War, and the South lost the American Civil War, but when it was over it was over. Besides, all rulers broadly accept the security of persons and property.

    So, to get to the point, we have advanced societies because we know how to have a disagreement. They live in their own sh*t and bang rocks together because they don't. I'm not sure we have enough in common to successfully interact with some parts of the world. We are post-scientific revolution/post-Enlightenment people confronting medieval retards.

    The brain isn't the mind. Socialisation is a lot, maybe nearly everything. It's all very depressing :(
  2. So it's an education and culture thing?
  3. Just because a country doesnt have much in the way of flush toilets or a national power grid, don't assume it's inhabitants aren't capable of understanding or accepting such concepts as representative democracy, independent judiciary and fair and ethical laws.

    But these 'revolutionary' ideas cannot be imposed by an occupying power or external source, because that undermines the democracy, justice and laws bit rather much.
  4. But both the Arab and Persian/Dari/whatever cultures have long traditions of being civilised. Where does 'banging rocks' fit in to them? The thesis is probably correct, but I'm not sure where the ANP officer and US Psycho fit in to it.

    A more general rule is that petty much everyone is a cunt, just most can hide it well enough to get by.
  5. Conrad Black's father as he lay dying, "Everything is bullshit and most people are c*nts". A bleak vision.

    Probably accurate.
  6. My worry is that it is an education and culture thing, but we totally underestimate just how deeply that runs. Maybe "language speaks man".

    The Ottomans used to take smart kids away from their families and train them up - you begin to wonder if that's what it takes. In most sh*tholes the army are better respected than the police. The public, who hate the police, never seem to grasp that the cops are behaving as badly as the public would if they had the same opportunity given the shitty culture they both imbibe.

    Maybe if Afghans were honest they would say, "I hate the police because they are no better than I would be in the same circumstances".
  7. As much as I like you're theory to some extent there is a big but...

    There are plenty of civilised, respectful and peaceful Afghans wandering around that country wondering when all this fighting will end. During my deployment I was lucky enough to visit some of the most remote parts of the country. We would drive out to villages that hadn't seen troops since The Russians, yet they confidently approached us to enquire who we were and why we were in the area. These people didn't have a pot to p1ss in yet they more often than not welcomed us and even offered us bread/fruit/tea/etc.

    Although they lived in sh1t holes they still found time to educate their children (Who would otherwise spend all day banging rocks together) and although there were no Police around they still understood and respected the rule of law (No doubt due to religious teachings).

    I wonder who we think we are sometimes to call ourselves the civilised part of the world when we live in a country where you can beat up old women, steal their belongings then walk free (Sorry recieve a suspended sentence). Our so called civilised society would have pensioners (including war veterans) freezing to death in their homes in winter due to the question that now faces our grandparents "Heat or Eat."

    Turn on the news and when you get through The bits on Afghanistan and the recession (The result of the greed of civilised men) look at the "Civilised" country you live in yourself. Look at the number of murders, stabbings, shootings, beatings that are handed out over here.

    Civilised society? We're Wolves in Sheeps clothing.
  8. Good point, well presented.
  9. You are right though. Some communities/ways of life will always be not compatible and it will only be the open minded/enlightened types who make any union between the two work.
  10. We are so civilised we allow thugs to kill good citizens and walk free.

    We are so civilised that those who take advantage of our good nature get away with it scot free.

    We are so civilsed we defend the rights of the criminals, and hold their dignity above that of their victims and of society.

    Yep, civilisation. It's great.....