ASBOs and Council estates

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by semper, Sep 8, 2007.

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  1. This was published in the light of what happened in Norris Green where Rhys Jones was killed not so long ago, this is not just a Liverpool problem, there are other estates that has similar problems, trouble with ASBOs is that they are very ineffective, perosnally I think any Council residents that has an ASBO should automatically lose the right to live in a Council house regardless of the consequences to his family and relatives in living on the streets, that way only they will feel the full effects of it and should be a warning to any others thinking the same.

    a Liverpool estate report
     
  2. Toatally agree, people with ASBO's should be given no second chance. It is the chavvy cultured scum doing this world no good at the moment. Don't get me wrong I am not perfect, I have been in trouble with the Police before, but it is the people who continue to offend that ruin this world. Warnings do no good, there should be no second chance. There should also be more police on the streets as the police usually tend to pull up about 20 minutes after a crime is commited. Instead of letting them live in the streets I think something along the lines of working for the good of the community, like communtity service but better. Then after they have finished work, they are chucked out and stay on the streets. They don't get paid and the rest of the community are aloud to spit on the pieces of shite that are ruining community.
     
  3. Think thats what you meant, its how i feel. Swaggering gangs of feral youths with asbos a plenty, with single mums popping out more like the rats they are. Glad when weve moved, fecking estate is now a war zone.
     
  4. The problem with ASBOs is that on the one hand it is too draconian but on the other hand, or perhaps because it can be so draconian, no one wants to enforce ASBOs.

    ASBOs are what are known are hybrid orders - having characteristics of both civil and criminal orders. When ASBOs first came out, there was even doubt as to what level of proof is needed to impose an ASBO. Some suggested that the level of proof required is 'on the balance of probabilities' rather than the criminal standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Thankfully the courts have decided on the latter.

    But ASBOs are still without some of the procedural safeguards that are a characteristic of imposing criminal sanctions. Eg. Hearsay evidence is allowed in deciding whether or not to impose an ASBO.

    The reason I think ASBOs are draconian is because breach of an ASBO can attract 5 years imprisonment - that opens the way for eg the mentally disabled (there are numerous cases of seemingly crazy people being slapped with ASBOs) to be imprisoned on the strength of evidence that would not pass muster in a criminal trial. ASBOs also effectively criminalize people without the state having to contend with procedural safeguards afforded in a criminal trial.

    AS I said, I think most people who deal with ASBOs know these and so are reluctant to enforce breaches of ASBOs - and when a measure is not enforced, it breeds contempt and exposes it for ridicule, as ASBOs currently are.

    Looking at ASBOs rationally, I have to conclude that it is a badly thoughout measure that seeks to pay lip service to the government's tough on crime line. After all, if the behaviour concerned is so 'antisocial' why not prosecute under existing laws? Or would that cost too much and take too long to show results?
     
  5. I've always been partial to putting scrotes to clean up the streets in their neighbourhood dressed in luminuous staybrite vests and wellies.
     
  6. I really love the way people jump on the "scum from council estates "band wagon. Firstly a large proportion of houses on council estates are privately owned nowadays and secondly chav scum come from all types of areas. Not so long ago the worst area fro lager louts was said to be the "stockbroker belt" in Berkshire and area. Sh*ts come from all types of environment . A large number of squaddies I would imagine come from council estates but can hardly be called scum/chavs. I live on a council estate where we have hardly any trouble and I hav etwo boys who both did their time in the army and hav enever been in trouble with the police. I'm afraid then attitude to council house tenants is very much like the attitude to squaddies, one's a sh*t so they all are. I would hope that the users of this web site would know better.
     
  7. Do you never stop whining?
     
  8. You are just obsessed with being objectionable and that seems to be about the only thing you're succesful at.
     

  9. I wouldn't say all council estates are crap, trouble is Council Estates tend to cluster trouble makers in one area, hence certain areas gets a "Tag" they are usually low income sections of the community, in receipt of benefits, the only immediate santion would be to evict them, granted some are from affluent areas, where such santions are meaningless, the only sanction would be to either fine their parents, confiscate their cars, compulsory purchase their home which requires an New Act of parliament, then Prison is the only alternative to enforce it, in order to nake them respect it and make it a condition on release to stay out of trouble for 10 years afterward or a lifetime ban on any future trouble.

    the people I feel really sorry for are decent residents as mentioned in the report who had to live with those Yobs, same up and down the Country, no witness protection program was in place for them or at least anonymity to give evidence.
     
  10. are you talking to me or Biscuits ?

    as for me I am not obsessed with being objectionable, I am interested in debates and quite happy to be proven wrong, if it is justified, fact does remain the same regardless of what is said, I have my views obviously and Norris Green is 10 minutes down the road from me.

    please read my last post.
     
  11. There is nothing wrong with council estates. I was born on one, brought up on one and my parents and brother still live on one. The only difference is that my parents and brother have bought theirs and it is quite a nice area. Before the sainted Margaret, a vast amount of people lived on council estates and home ownership was not the norm. The problem is with councils putting a lot of troubled families in the same area. In Cardiff, one new estate was filled up with single, under age mums well away from their families. In Leicester, two estates were filled with those who had been kicked out of previous estates for trouble making. It is these type of estates that get the bad press because the parents are so busy drinking away their benefits that the kids run wild with no parental supervision whatsoever. There are many good people out there living on council estates who try and live normal, decent lives. There are also plenty of nice, private suburbs with their fair share of unsupervised feral brats. But I agree, ASBOs are a complete waste of time and are being used as a badge of honour by some of the prats out there. Maybe the parents should be given the ASBO and kicked out if they fail to control their kids, or at least show that they are making efforts to do so.
     
  12. Blaming it all on chavs and council estates takes away from the real causes: PC education theories, PC criminal justice theories, PC parenting theories. The social breakdown those theories have caused shows up more clearly in poor areas where there is less prosperity to act as a safety net.

    If you had to boil it down to one word it would be discipline. That doesn't neccessarily mean corporal punishment etc it means the idea that discipline is a good or at least neccessary thing. The PC ideology thinks discipline is a bad thing, except when it comes to enforcing PC ideology.
     
  13. By the love of baby Beejesus :roll:

    Yet again the lover of everyone and everything is spouting more shite.