As reality dawns.

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by EAGLE1, Oct 1, 2006.

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  1. speaking of afghanistan-

    General Sir Michael Rose, who led the SAS and British forces in Bosnia, said recently that with Nato's present resources and strategy "we simply cannot win".

    The MOD also states that unless Britain chose between Iraq or Afghanistan it risked failure in both.

    So does the reality of the present 'double stretch' situation sink in.
    will the reality of the future outcome force an immediate change of heart.
    Do they keep on trying even though the wisdom and experience says otherwise.

    yes these men are all heroes, yes they are our nations gold. Our few remaining national treasures.
    How will they be repaid for not reasoning why just do or die. Can we now save them from a certain future fate of struggle against the odds.

    sure we have the capacity as tough military personnel to fight on against the odds. The voices of greater wisdom can be drowned out by more firepower. Is it right to push the men on. To test their endurance just in case fine men like General Sir Michael Rose have missed some important detail one that only Government officials in suits know of.

    For the love of God get these men out and accept that ill concieved plans will go astray. Or to quote a much loved army saying.

    Poor planning and preparation equals a piss poor performance.

    Or no -drive onwards and see before our eyes the unfolding of a crisis that will etch itself in British history books as a catastrophe on two fronts.

    Sometimes I feel that I am watching a dog fight between two well trained and highly motivated pit bulls. Both intent on winning. yet I feel a sickness in the pit of my stomach because both of these dogs of war should be seperated by their highly irresponsible owners.

    Yet to break up this fight will take massive courage and must mean setting pride aside. The fact is the word Taliban means 'the people of Afghanistan. They 'the people' will be like a dog with a bone and if and when we get the bone from their jaws will the world really be a safer place than before. According to senior American Intelligence agency staff 2007 will be worse that 2006 for insurgency attacks.
     
  2. It seems to me that the "great and good" that govern us have three choices.

    1) Determine exactly what mission our troops are to perform in Iraq and Afghanistan, then give them the numbers and resources necessary to carry it out.

    2) If the necessary resources and numbers to carry out the mission are not available, pull the troops out.

    3) Keep the troops out there without significant reinforcement, or a properly defined role, as a gesture of solidarity to the Americans, thus allowing our Prime Minister to continue larging it up on the international stage.

    No prizes awarded for correct guesses as to which course is followed.

    I really do despair

    SLR :( :( :(
     
  3. Tony will not change his mind on this fact. He wants to be remembered for his wars and his success and his tough choices. He will go soon, the men will have to stay. I hope someone at the top has got the balls to call a halt to this madness and soon.

    Serving soldiers cannot speak out yet ex-soldiers can and must. The military families are already asking embarassing questions. They deserve answers.
    Rose Gentle has said last night 1/10/06 that a Labour Politician had phoned her at home and told her to stop taking political advantage of her situation. Shame on that man.

    She gave out her website address it is MFAW.ORG.
     
  4. I thought 'Taliban' meant 'student'?

    I was also under the impression that 'the people of Afghanistan' weren't entirely enamoured of the Taliban rule (what with pulling people's nails off for wearing nail varnish and so on).

    I am not convinced that letting them take back control of Afghanistan will make the world a safer place than before (before when?)

    Emotional 'bring our boys home now' cries, however heartfelt, are not the answer.

    I have the greatest sympathy for Rose Gentle's loss and her subsequent dedication to her cause, but I do not agree with her.

    Allowing the public to actually see what is going on is, however, a different matter. As is providing appropriate resources.
     
  5. Is it time for the Government to Compulsory Mobilise TA again as they did for Iraq?
     
  6. They are already in the 'stan - the Royal Rifle Volunteers are there at present along with 4 Para
     
  7. Ahh could be wrong then! Thought that may have been on a Voluntary bases??

    Did Parliment not pass the act for mobilisation for TA for Iraq but hav'nt done for the 'Stan'??
     
  8. The 1996 RFA allows mobilisation during peacetime without the need for parliamentary action - that was I believe the major reason for bringing it in.

    It allows for two forms of mobilisation, compulsory and voluntary. As far as I am aware, the voluntary option has never been used and all mobilisations to date have been done using the compulsory option. This is because compulsory gives some employment protection (not enough though !) and voluntary gives nothing.

    However, things are confused although all soldiers have been compulsorily mobilised some have volunteered to be and some have not. Hence we talk about volunteers when what we mean is volunteers for compulsory mobilisation.

    And the TA have been continuously mobilised since early 2002 and Op Veritas. Well, since long before then in the Balkans but that was all voluntary.
     
  9. Dilfor I agree with a lot of what you say. However with the men being told that the mission objective was rebuild and support and now we find that the mission objective has been lost in a haze of blood and sand it is understandable that the mens moral is low and questions are beginning to be asked about the British role in Afghanistan.

    One other point was that it was General Pervez Musharraf the president of Pakistan who quoted on a recent CNN interview that the word Taliban meant 'the people of Afghanistan'. I am only quoting his words.
     
  10. Forgive me Eagle 1 - but I distinctly heard a young Para on TV news 2-3 nights ago very distinctly say "Best tour I've done . . . really enjoyed it" . didn't sound like low morale to me.

    . . . because the necessary resources were not made available previously, and are not being made available now, and press reporting in AFG is being suppressed.

    All these things may affect morale in time, - but (and here I'll stand to be corrected by anyone who is still serving) you shouldn't automatically conclude questions being asked = low morale just yet. 8)

    (edited once for spelling)
     

  11. Close friends of mine are still volunteering to go there (flying this week, in fact). Nervous? - probably, but low morale? - form your own conclusions.

    It raises the problem with all these 'troops out' type calls. Troops, generally speaking, quite like going in - its what they joined for after all. What they would like, however, is to have a reasonably good chance of achieving the aim they were sent out with (ie resources), plus the knowledge that they are supported by those back home. (They also would prefer not to go straight back, having come home either).
     
  12. Eagle 1, I agree with you entirely. We should withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq immediately. The government have either lied to us all or are so totally stupid that they could not foresee the outcome. How do they justify their actions? They should now be held accountable and provide the truth.

    The loss of our soldiers should be halted. They are under-equiped, hungry, knackered and pushed past to the absolute limit.

    We need to do everything we can to bring them back and halt the needless murder of our heros. They are heros, everyone of them.
     
  13. And so they will have died for nothing?? Please be real. Withdrawel is not an option, however a more realistic aprasal of the situation by the MOD, with the correct equipment and support provided, will get the job done
     
  14. So let me get this straight, if you bought an old banger of a car for £200 and it tiurned out to need £1000 spent on it to get it past MOT you would spend the money because you dont want to have wasted the £200?

    If we do not have the resource or political will to do what is required to "win" (bearing in mind we do not seem to know how we will know when we have won or even what winning is in this context), we should withdraw. The loss of lives "wasted" will be regrettable but far more regrettable would be losing even more just out of pig-headedness.
     
  15. Eagle, you spout some right pish. Theres not the remotest chance that UKPLC will pull out of either theatre until requested to do so by the Government of those respective countries.