ARTIFICERS - CREME DE LA CREME

#1
Bright young sparks on exellerated promotion, higher pay bands and commisioning potential. They are the movers and shakers of the Engineering process. Every one aspires to be one.

If this is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Then why isn't the Corps overwhelmed with potential tiffies battering the PAAB doors to get in?






I have a flack jacket, helmet, Kate Adies pants 8O and my Grandads Anderson shelter........................FIRE AWAY.
 
#2
They have solved the problem of under application by putting the selection process at the end of the upgrading course, by which time the applicant has been brainwashed into thinking its a good idea.
This also creates the problem initally that all the up graders who pass will arrive back at their units as a full screw ( if that is still going to happen) and then (due to current under course loading) be back on the tiffy course in 12 months, outcome a 7 - 8 year SSGT. got to be good for experience in the corp, just as well weve still got some artisans left who know what to do!!
 
#3
Having recently completed a tiffi course, i would say that a large part of the lack of interest is financial. I am only on 6p more a day than most of my Sgts in the workshop, for working my ass off for close to 2 years..!!!
 
#5
and all armd recce regiments have just lost an ess tiffy as well.....

is redundancy on the cards ???

£££££££££ :D
 

RCEME

Old-Salt
#9
one-eye said:
Tiffy's- Go on a 18 month course, read pass backs all day. Then change all your cheat sheets into Font 4. Top 5% ers (NOT)
Top 5% they might not be my friend but they are SSgts at 30 with a HND, who's having the last laugh.....?
 
#10
Probably those who spent 8 years of their own free time to gain an OU degree, got shafted by the powder-puff jokers, got out and are now earning 5 grand a year more as a civvy and seeing far more of the world too!

:)
 
#11
A HND is a bit of a laugh these days, the dumbing down of engineering qualifications is rife. The foundation degrees "earned" by some artificers are only worth 240 OU points. The OU is just as guilty with degrees now being granted at 300 points.
I believe a BSc is granted at the end of some tiify courses (e.g. Avionics), but employers will be quick to identify proper degrees and those which are really just a HND with honours. Achieved at 30, by the time the said artificer uses it in anger at age 40 it will probably be the equivalent of a GCSE!
Prehaps these back door qualifications are sanctioned to improve the rate of applications for artificer training? I hope this is not the case as recent letters in The Crafty suggested that Engineering Council Registration was more important than academic qualifications.
Hat off to those that pursue OU degrees but for engineers these quals must be backed up by membership of a decent engineering institution and Engineering Council Registration. These will ensure proper recognition.
 
#12
A HND is a bit of a laugh these days, the dumbing down of engineering qualifications is rife. The foundation degrees "earned" by some artificers are only worth 240 OU points. The OU is just as guilty with degrees now being granted at 300 points.
I believe a BSc is granted at the end of some tiify courses (e.g. Avionics), but employers will be quick to identify proper degrees and those which are really just a HND with honours. Achieved at 30, by the time the said artificer uses it in anger at age 40 it will probably be the equivalent of a GCSE!
Prehaps these back door qualifications are sanctioned to improve the rate of applications for artificer training? I hope this is not the case as recent letters in The Crafty suggested that Engineering Council Registration was more important than academic qualifications.
Hat off to those that pursue OU degrees but for engineers these quals must be backed up by membership of a decent engineering institution and Engineering Council Registration. These will ensure proper recognition.
 
#13
Lowerband said:
A HND is a bit of a laugh these days, the dumbing down of engineering qualifications is rife. The foundation degrees "earned" by some artificers are only worth 240 OU points. The OU is just as guilty with degrees now being granted at 300 points.
I believe a BSc is granted at the end of some tiify courses (e.g. Avionics), but employers will be quick to identify proper degrees and those which are really just a HND with honours. Achieved at 30, by the time the said artificer uses it in anger at age 40 it will probably be the equivalent of a GCSE!
Prehaps these back door qualifications are sanctioned to improve the rate of applications for artificer training? I hope this is not the case as recent letters in The Crafty suggested that Engineering Council Registration was more important than academic qualifications.
Hat off to those that pursue OU degrees but for engineers these quals must be backed up by membership of a decent engineering institution and Engineering Council Registration. These will ensure proper recognition.
I have to agree with you there on the credibility of the HND, however, my point for one-eye was if it's going for a song then you'd be mad to turn it down.

I too have seen the Crafty articles referring to the Engineering Institution membership, personally I don't see how paying £80+ a year for a monthly magazine to line the bin with will make me a better engineer?

Anyway, with just over 6 years to go I see an OU degree on the cards, might as well get the benefit of the ELC before they realise they can't afford it. Personally the only degrees that I have ever rated are those of true maths and science, but at the end of the day no matter what it is, it shows you can stick at something and be educated. Like I said in my original quote, if there's something up for grabs that adds a feather to your cap you'd be a fool not to grab it.

I think I'll be waving engineering goodbye when I walk out the gate, a business degree looks on the cards, I'll probably be the best educated bin-man on my round....lol!
 
#14
Tiff Meister said:
I too have seen the Crafty articles referring to the Engineering Institution membership, personally I don't see how paying £80+ a year for a monthly magazine to line the bin with will make me a better engineer?
It doesn't make you a better engineer if that is all you do. Any professional institution will offer you a variety of courses and networking events as well as the ability to progress within the institution. It is almost like a second career (sort of). If you bother with this it shows a dedication to engineering and the desire to progress as a professional. This is what is seen as making you a better engineer. It is however hard to spot someone who is doing this and not just "lining his bin". Whether someone in the armed forces is able to attend many courses/events etc is the question...
 
#15
Yep £80 a year is a lot to splash out (the RAeS comes in at over a ton) and most people would be better waiting until their last couple of years service to join. But if you are doing any higher education, the Professional Affairs Department will be able to advise as to whether the courses you select are likely to be worthwhile, and if they satify the educational requirements of the Engineering Council grade you are pursuing.
Considering the right quals/grade can be worth an extra £10k/year that's a pretty good investment!
 
#16
Institution memebership is good for 2 things: showing interviewing officers that you are serious about the cause when applying for commission and (as previously mentioned) networking for a new job when coming to the end of your time.

Me? I'm doing OU and the only instituion I'm in is marriage!
 
#17
@artifisan

vm upgraders on passing paab will be on a 2 year wait out for asclb. they could then wait another 2 years (4 boards) for selection and then 6 months waiting for a course to start.
they do not get a free fullscrew tape on pasing paab as far as i am aware, unless already selected on a promotion board.
correct me if i am wrong.
 
#18
:D

i laugh at all this talk of engineers. lets be honest chaps, the majority of you are not engineers at all, you may have a piece of paper saying that you have a HNC/HND however, its not worth too much in the real world.

i left last year (without a HNC/HND ill add so yes not creme de la creme) and have recently got a job as a commisioning engineer in the steel industry. having been on a few interviews since leaving i can tell you no one once looked at my qualifications, they purely wanted to know if i could do the job at hand.

tell me when, as an artificer, and for that matter any engineering officer reading this do you make a technical judgement or decision?? :?

in my time (14 yrs and SNCO) i dont recall one time an engineering descision went above Ftr Sect Sgt and most times was sorted by full screws.

argue the toss all you like about canabalisation, yes, the ASM or OC had to authorise, but this is not a good example, my appologies also to other trades other than VM as i cant really comment too much on you. (i know Q Wpns have a lot of input on XofO ect)

the REME are slowly becoming no more than fitters. :cry: proper, skilled and good mechanics are few and far between.

all this pushing people through early is gonna go wrong, i dont believe many people have the skill to come straight off class 1 as a full screw let alone be tiffy's just a few years later.

it should be a case of 1-2 yrs as a class 1 L/Cpl to learn again, inspecting, making descisions etc. then 1-2 as a Cpl, i personally think you should be promoted to Sgt before you go on a tiffy course (i mean promoted properly not handed it in a cereal box)

i know im gonna get some stick here, but IMHO i would like to know what people think of my comments. ill wager that the old and bold will agree somewhat, while the thrusters who think they know it all will not 8)
 
#19
I left 15 years ago.
In my time I knew some good tiffies, and a few outstanding ones some made Half Col, no problem with that.
But I knew sum scum, promotion for the sake of it, promotion and the path to power they where never capable of exerting as a junior person.
I do not doubt that in 42 when REME came into being there was massive demand for capable junior managers from who the leaders of the future could be chosen.
Post war the monsterous tiffy training estblishment came into being and officers O i/c LAD/WKSP where required to identify the future leaders.
I saw soldiers who did not deserve their first tape move through the system for reasons other then Trade or Military ability.
john
 
#20
jonwilly said:
I saw soldiers who did not deserve their first tape move through the system for reasons other then Trade or Military ability.
john
i agree john, its a known fact that if you play corps football you will soon be whisking your way to artificer heaven should you wish to go that way. there are many who do this sort of thing and are absolutely useless at trade :x
 
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