Artificer - Leader or Manager

Artificers - Leader or manager

  • Leader

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Manager

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

PCLG

Old-Salt
#1
I know it will heve been doen before but always worth updating, especially in light of the continual 2 year change in party line (mmm.. how long do DEME(A)'s do in post again???)

Is an artificer (specifically a fitter section commander) a leader or a manager?

For my two penneth worth:

1. Management is a function of leadership - not the reverse

2. If the OC LAD is a leader then surely a FS Comd is as he fulfils the function at a Coy level?

ENJOY!!!!
 
#3
Bit of a no brainer this one. He is obviously both.

As a manager he facilitates his troops and makes sure that they have every possible means of carrying out their tasks.

To get them to do the said tasks he needs to be a leader. Sure, we are a heirarchical organistaion and there is a certain amount of "get it done or else" but that is not typical.

No need to just ask whether a Tiffy is a manager or leader, I believe that it starts at Class 1 level whereby we expect our junior ranks to be both as well as a supervisor. To enable them to do this we should provide training at the RAS.
 
#5
I've worked with a couple of Tiffy's who were extremely good managers and leaders. I've worked more often than not with some who were real to$$ers who could never manage to lead. More said......
 

PCLG

Old-Salt
#6
sparky8 said:
Bit of a no brainer this one. He is obviously both.

As a manager he facilitates his troops and makes sure that they have every possible means of carrying out their tasks.

To get them to do the said tasks he needs to be a leader. Sure, we are a heirarchical organistaion and there is a certain amount of "get it done or else" but that is not typical.

No need to just ask whether a Tiffy is a manager or leader, I believe that it starts at Class 1 level whereby we expect our junior ranks to be both as well as a supervisor. To enable them to do this we should provide training at the RAS.
Well if it is a no brainer then why does the direction from the directorate periodically change?
 
#7
PCLG said:
sparky8 said:
Bit of a no brainer this one. He is obviously both.

As a manager he facilitates his troops and makes sure that they have every possible means of carrying out their tasks.

To get them to do the said tasks he needs to be a leader. Sure, we are a heirarchical organistaion and there is a certain amount of "get it done or else" but that is not typical.

No need to just ask whether a Tiffy is a manager or leader, I believe that it starts at Class 1 level whereby we expect our junior ranks to be both as well as a supervisor. To enable them to do this we should provide training at the RAS.
Well if it is a no brainer then why does the direction from the directorate periodically change?
Call me cynical but perhaps it's because they have difficulty filling their day with useful activities and therefore need to keep moving the goalposts for everybody else. This means they can go home at the end of the day with an enormous sense of well being and purpose.
 
#8
Both, unless someone can explain the difference
 
#9
If you need the difference between a 'manager' and 'leader' explaining, maybe you shouldn't be submitting on polls such as this one? Why don't you google it, and the difference will be explained. Why someone should 'explain' the difference online by typing it out for you is anyone's guess, but each to their own. Use your search facility and find out what the difference is; it may just help your life development. Then you might even be able to cast an 'educated' vote? And for the record, 'management' is not a FUNCTION of 'leadership'. You tw@t. Understand your subject before spouting off to the world about what you think you know. Anybody can be a leader, not everybody can be a manager. It depends who you are leading.
P_H
 
#11
Here we go again....

Tiffy's stand to......incoming...

:roll: [marq=down]change the record[/marq]
 
#12
Well it is easy for people that have never done either to get on their high horse!! We Command situations, we Lead men and Manage resources.

End of the day it is how the Artificer looks after his men whilst still supporting his dependants.
 
#14
Both and/or Neither

It is not the appointment that decides but the character. Some tiffies can manage and lead, some can't. Same goes for every rank. Why stop at tiffies? what about the HQ Sqn/Bty/Coy fitter section which is traditionaly run by an artisan staffy? does he not have to have the same qualities as his artificer counterparts who are doing the same job? I left as a stripey and was good at leading men and managing resources (I ran my HQ/Support Coy fitter section on ops in the abscence of a tiffy). I am now in a middle managment job in a multi national company and my daily duties are on a par with what an AQMS would have to deal with in a normal 1st line WKSP role (except my budget is bigger and I am directly responsible for it). Leadership/management is nothing to do with whether you are a tiffy or not but whether you have the ability
 
#15
Spurs_fan said:
Well it is easy for people that have never done either to get on their high horse!! We Command situations, we Lead men and Manage resources.

End of the day it is how the Artificer looks after his men whilst still supporting his dependants.
Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, that is a direct quote from the RAS poster!!!!!
 
#17
I decided the Tiffy Cause was lost when I first saw a course march down the road , Left arms swinging, right arm holding the Briefcase.
john
Be early 72 cheap and nasty from Honkers.
 
#18
pensionprisoner said:
The aussie army manages quite well without tiffies!!
Jumped up fullscrews (not all) no experiance just big gobs and more pay!
I am afraid you are wrong the p_p.
The Australian Army does have Artificers, all RAEME WOs attend the Subject 4 for WO course (Commonly called the Arts Course) which entitles them to wear the Hammer and Pincer Badge. RAEME SGTs who have completed the Sub 4 for WO are entitled to wear the badge too.
 
#19
How about spineless two faced back stabbing cnut?

Just food for thought
 

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