Article 50 Served: And so it Starts.....

If you had bothered to look instead of spouting pish you would have seen this was a BBC page and as such the whole article was visible without subscription.

View attachment 277640

Unlike @Graculus page which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot......



Expect their pissed off at the response they got re Gib..... The fact they go after the fragrant Nicola is a bonus for us.....
Your "pish" was in claiming the French sold Exocets to Argentina to get back at the British because, of course, they knew the Falklands were going to be invaded. Something which took the Brits and Spams, with their combined GCHQ and NSA assets, completely by surprise. Obviously French Int is/was far better than those esteemed organisations.
France sold missiles to Argentina. Brits sell them to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, India, Pakistan and many African countries but that's OK.
You should really be directing your opprobrium toward the Israelis who did sell arms to Argentina during the conflict. Or even the Brits who were negotiating arms deals with the Argies just days before it kicked off or even the millions of quid of military components it sold them between 2010 and 2012 when Kirchner was starting off again.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
If - hypothetically - they receive 100 pages a day of intelligence on average and it slowly falls away to 70, including far less intelligence on Putin and domestic events in Russia, I think they might notice...

Wordsmith
If on the other hand, they still get their 100 pages, but the content is ever lower grade intelligence, they might conclude that we have nothing better, or maybe we are being less successful, or that we cannot get the high quality stiff because they're being less cooperative.

They simply cannot know.
 
So funny.... Papers released in 2012 under the 30 year rule describe something different entirely.

Yes Sir John Nott did say this but it emerged Dassault (51% owned by the French Government) had a team on the ground in Argentina who were able to instrument the repair of 3 faulty missiles which were then used on UK assets.

How France helped both sides in the Falklands War - BBC News



You crack on though posting pish to a link most will have to subscribe to read which only displays the part of the story you actually want known.
I've explained a number times that you don't need to subscribe, I certainly haven't.

There was a team left behind and they also gave assistance. Do you think that we've never done anything similar? We can on all day about the assistance given or not, you're aware of the Peru missiles, the Mirages provided for DACT, the French facilities used at Dakar?

Mitterand's embargo was ordered in good faith and generally observed – with the exception of the Exocet specialists already in Argentina and employed by the missile's manufacturer. One French official interviewed on the programme furiously called their actions "treason". But a senior ex-spook also admitted that one of the technicians was an agent of the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), France's MI6.
Sir John Nott, defence secretary at the time, also confessed to knowing about the team. Interviewed for the documentary, he protested half-heartedly about French "duplicity" but signally failed to get hot under the collar. The key point in his view was that the French helped us prevent the Argentines getting their hands on any more Exocet missiles.

BBC finds evidence that French helped Argentines sink our ships

Why do you reckon John Nott wasn't upset then? Terrible having a French intelligence operative on the ground isn't it.
 
If we don't tell them some stuff, they're going to find it difficult to know there's stuff we're not telling them.
Rumsfeld walt..
 
The symptoms are prevalent by some posters on this thread. A gradual mental conditioning to portray European countries as our enemies. I prescribe a cold turkey period of 3 months from reading of the daily mail and express, before it's too late


http://www.urbandictionary.com/tags.php?tag=little%20englander

DailyMailitus - A common disease which is endemic amongst the middle-classes of England, mainly infecting housewives and is normally caused by reading and believing what's published in the Daily Mail newspaper (the disease can also be contracted by coming into close contact with an infected person(s)).
Symptoms of the illness usually include some or all of the following; Heightened levels of ignorance, a total lack of tolerance towards foreigners, an inclination to blame everything on immigrants, negative views how the country is being run and a tendency to sensationalise fairly unimportant issues.

In order to cure DailMailitus the suffer must stop reading the Daily Mail immediately and go on a strict diet of 'the truth' and 'hard facts'
 
Your "pish" was in claiming the French sold Exocets to Argentina to get back at the British because, of course, they knew the Falklands were going to be invaded. Something which took the Brits and Spams, with their combined GCHQ and NSA assets, completely by surprise. Obviously French Int is/was far better than those esteemed organisations.
France sold missiles to Argentina. Brits sell them to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, India, Pakistan and many African countries but that's OK.
You should really be directing your opprobrium toward the Israelis who did sell arms to Argentina during the conflict. Or even the Brits who were negotiating arms deals with the Argies just days before it kicked off or even the millions of quid of military components it sold them between 2010 and 2012 when Kirchner was starting off again.
Strawman.......

So you wouldn't agree then with this statement?

French still provided technical assistance (with the full knowledge of the Fr Government) which directly led to the deaths of UK servicemen.
 
The symptoms are prevalent by some posters on this thread. A gradual mental conditioning to portray European countries as our enemies
You really are quite stupid, aren't you?

The myopic believe that our former European friends will throw away 70 years of ever closer cooperation for the petulant Brits are utterly deluded.
And it's not even the amusing form of stupidity; it's that special "dog-continually-returning-to-eat-it's-own-vomit" type of inbred crouton stupidity.
 
You really are quite stupid, aren't you?



And it's not even the amusing form of stupidity; it's that special "dog-continually-returning-to-eat-it's-own-vomit" type of inbred crouton stupidity.
Care to debate the point?

Endless rants about the war, using defence cooperation threats are all conducive driving a fatter wedge between us and our former European friends than we've already riven.
 
I find it comforting that some of the more passionate supporters of staying in the EU are actually non UK residents and some are not even in EU member states. Makes me think that they're more worried about the effect on their situation after the UK has left.

The other thing about the whole whinge fest is this:

For years every time an Common Market/EEC/EU decision has been made any complaints from the UK population has been put down to 'Little Englanders' with the assurance that the vast majority are in favour of the situation. So far so good, when the chatterati and Islington clique gave in and put their money where their mouth is. Quelle horreur! the vast majority of people who wanted the ever closer merging of member states was nothing of the sort, in fact the majority wanted out. This is totally unacceptable to the remainers.

Imagine, if you will an atheist such as Higgs Bosun walking down the street and bumping into Jesus Christ out on the lash with Buddha, Horus and Odin.

Is he more likely to say

'Stone me, I got it wrong!' or just deny the event in its entirety and try to find any reason at all why this cannot be so?
 
From Report on French Co-operation Falklands 1982
At the start of the conflict, France's left-leaning president, Francois Mitterrand, had come to Britain's aid by declaring an embargo on French arms sales and assistance to Argentina.

He also allowed the Falklands-bound British fleet to use French port facilities in West Africa, as well as providing London with detailed information about planes and weaponry his country had sold to Buenos Aires.

Paris also co-operated with extensive British efforts to stop Argentina acquiring any more Exocets on the world's arms market.
As the fleet proceeded south, the French also provided Air Force assets to enable the SHAR and 1 Sqn pilots to learn how to 'play' with Mirages and Super Etendards.
 
You do realise that the past 70 years are an abberation in the history of Europe.

NATO is the biggest factor and the common threat of Russia.

The closer integration of Europe through the EU and other initiatives is my opinion another important factor.

Just because countries have a common threat does not always prevent them from fighting amongst themselves

I contend that unless Germany and France actually vote in these far right nationalist parties this year, divide and conquer negotiation tactics by TM will not work and hard brexit is the only possible outcome.

This sounds like a recipe for a chaotic disaster IMO. Hence my frequent proclaimations of doom :)
I think the other Central and Eastern European countries have pretty good memories about "Orange" and its threat. Somehow I think, depleted as our armed forces are, they'll be very keen to keep us Brits onside. Can you really see the Poles, for one, thinking they can rely on the Deutchers?

It was always an unofficial thought that if it kicked off back in the days of the IGB that the Poles couldn't be relied upon by their then allies.
 
Sure. Pay attention.

1. We are not leaving Europe.
2. Europe is not the EU.
3. We are leaving the EU.

Your counter-arguments?
I agree. However the rhetoric and acrimonious divorce is likely to rile the individual member states nonetheless.

Your counter arguments?
 
No, but they do dominate policy thinking for the UK. It's the most densely-populated region and contains a high proportion of economic activity.

I don't, for example, think that Scotland's problems within the UK are unique to Scotland, nor are they caused by obscene machinations from down south. They're caused by policies that are not geared towards the social and economic needs of places like Scotland, including Wales and many parts of Northern and Western England.

The difference in my mind is that we already have the bases for a separate nation and have had for the entire existence of the Union - our legal system, education, local government structure, even the relationship between country and Head of State and sense of self are distinct. We're better placed than any other part of the UK to go it alone.
Now, even as a die-hard Unionist, I have to agree with your points there. Outside of those comfortably domiciled within the commuter-belt suburban Home Counties, the rest of this nation is in a mess, and I include large parts of the Smoke there too.

Still think the notion of the UK without Scotland ("Northern British" during Vicky's time, with a ta to GMF's Flashman for that) is a recipe for disaster for the Thistlers.
 
You forgot....

1982 France provides Exocet missiles technology to Argentina to stick one up to it's old adversary directly leading to the deaths of dozens of UK servicemen.....

And the fcukwits think we should continue to share intelligence with them.....

Let them eat cheese.
I thought Israel furnished the Argies with some Exocets during the conflict?

Edit: Credit to exbleep for posting about the Israeli link to Tangoland
 
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Care to debate the point?

Endless rants about the war, using defence cooperation threats are all conducive driving a fatter wedge between us and our former European friends than we've already riven.
When they cough up their 2% of GDP for defence then maybe so, until then we're an island. Time to start building up the Andrew.
 
I find it comforting that some of the more passionate supporters of staying in the EU are actually non UK residents and some are not even in EU member states. Makes me think that they're more worried about the effect on their situation after the UK has left.

The other thing about the whole whinge fest is this:

For years every time an Common Market/EEC/EU decision has been made any complaints from the UK population has been put down to 'Little Englanders' with the assurance that the vast majority are in favour of the situation. So far so good, when the chatterati and Islington clique gave in and put their money where their mouth is. Quelle horreur! the vast majority of people who wanted the ever closer merging of member states was nothing of the sort, in fact the majority wanted out. This is totally unacceptable to the remainers.

Imagine, if you will an atheist such as Higgs Bosun walking down the street and bumping into Jesus Christ out on the lash with Buddha, Horus and Odin.

Is he more likely to say

'Stone me, I got it wrong!' or just deny the event in its entirety and try to find any reason at all why this cannot be so?
In all fairness I think Higgsy would go for a pint with them, accept they exist and still question the need for religions.
 
At the moment, the EU appear to have gone into full cult mode and are determined to punish the dissenter. It would be nice to think that wiser heads will eventually prevail. That may or may not happen, but if the EU really are determined to give us a kicking, it will be at a great cost to themselves.

upload_2017-4-2_13-31-10.png


It really does serve to illustrate what a wholly authoritarian, unbalanced and protectionist organisation it really is. (In fact, the chart suggests to me that the EU is entirely insolvent). In spite of the much-vaunted rebate that we secured (now somewhat diminished), we are one of the very few net contributors to the total EU budget (second only to Germany). Our direct financial contribution will go, but it would nevertheless pay them to keep us sweet, as we can contribute to their economy by means of trade. They really cannot afford to give us a kicking and make enemies of us, or anyone else.

So it's either a huge bluff, or else they are so vindictive they cannot see the wood for the trees and, like the cult that they are, are prepared to go into self-destruct mode in order to make some sort of a point. Time will tell.
 

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