ARTICIFER STATUS

#1
Would someone please explain to me the difference between an Artisan and an Articifer, it seems to me that the Artisan SSgt has achieved his rank through hard work and labour, the Articifer thru butt kissing! Am i right?
 
#2
If you don't know the diffrence you are probably not Tiffy material...

I was an artisan Sgt before becoming an Artificer, I do not kiss butts.
I know lots of butt kissers on both sides of the coin.
I also know lots of good blokes/birds on both sides of the coin.

Does this answer your question?
 
#3
I think you do kiss butt, cos everywhere you've posted stuff, you is Mr Partyline chap. You are rite though you don't have to be a tiffy to kiss butt, but typically crap at your job. Present company excluded of course.
 
#4
Guess you missed the 'embellishments' posts then. 8O

Being crap at yor job is definately a prerequisite though....
 
#5
Well.......i have just read all the posts on embellishments.....what a good yarn!

I have to say i totally agree with you NIGE! Hurrah for the CORPS!

Who is this bloke CO@ELMPT? i take it he was influential with your removal from the LAD? What a cock! How can he live with himself!

Anyway ....Whats the bloody difference between a tiffy and an artisan?
 
#6
An Artificer is a soldier who has received specialist engineering, leadership and management training. He/She is employed in posts where they are expected to make independant engineering decisions and to lead soldiers & tradesman in war and peace time engineering activities. The Artificer has a closer link to the Supported unit than an Artisan may have, he liases closely with the OC and 2 I/C of the company he is suporting.

An Artisan is a highly experienced tradesman who has not received the training of an artificer but has shown the required leadership and trade skills to be able to lead soldiers in war & peacetime engineering tasks. An Artisan does not normally make engineering decisions independantly of the ASM/OC LAD. The Artisan SSgt is normally employed in HQ LAD, working to the ASM/OC rather than directly to an OC of a Coy.

I have however known Artisan SSgt to run Fitter Sections...

I've probably missed dome bits here and there, but I reckon it's not a bad starter for 10.
 
#7
Just a wee thought from a newbie to this site. I transferred from the RE after 5 years of service as a fitter. I've had to start again from scratch since joining the REME and am about to start Tiffy training next April.

The problem with most tiffy's is that they are plucked from their units and sent on their course as young men, not having learned their trade fully yet. They can jump from LCpl to SSgt in 2 years and get flustered when faced with a huge, grown up decision which they aren't used to.

These guys can sometimes give tiffy's a bad name.

On the other side though, people who go tiffy late in their career usually get more respect from their workforce, as they generally know what they're talking about due to the experience gained.

I think the corps is ,making a huge mistake by giving everyone a PAAB straight after class 1 training. There will be too many tiffy's in the system and most, if not all of them will be young again, with no trade experience.

Well, that's my 10p's worth.
 
#8
Nige,
You are correct, in my last unit, I was one of three Artisan S/Sgts
running R.E. Field Sqn.Fitter Sections. I did that for six years, so I reckon it must have been fairly successful.

Wedge,
Good points, very well put. One could hope that someone who swings a big enough axe has also read your post.

:twisted:
 
#9
Wedge -

Thank your lucky stars you will have missed the 'thing' that was Direct Entry Artificer. Basic Training to S/Sgt in one fell swoop.

I had one as an ASM about 12 years ago - Bloody good as his job (technically) but had never quite got the hang of being in the Army. :roll:

Black Hand
 
#10
Hey Wedge..

Guess What! It still exists!

It is still possible to join as a direct entrant! civvy to SSGT in 2 Years!

Whats more....

I experienced one several years ago now as well, whilst serving with the KRH in York Bks...he was an AQMS ECE then, What a complete chod he was! Not the same bloke i suppose?

The reason i know direct entry still exists is coz i phoned DEME (A) about 12 months ago on the matter. I was trying to get a geezer i knew in the TA (A VM NO LESS) to go direct tiffy.... This bloke isnt a chod though im pleased to announce.

By the way TA are allowed to go direct as well!
 
#13
one several years ago now as well, whilst serving with the KRH in York Bks...he was an AQMS ECE then, What a complete chod he was!

:twisted: yea he was well know as the ginger whinger and was out in Bosnia with us....He stood still as a WO2 for a very long time though....


proved that the system could be bypassed :idea:
 
#14
Wakening Dispute - ahoy there!
Would someone please explain to me the difference between an Artisan and an Articifer, it seems to me that the Artisan SSgt has achieved his rank through hard work and labour, the Articifer thru butt kissing! Am i right?

Maybe, just maybe...(and this is no dig at Artisans, as they are very worthy tradesmen in their own right) an Artificer is usually required to spell the appointment title correct in the first place? I assume you are not a said 'Artificer'?
Here endeth my soapbox. Out.
 
#15
BlackHand said:
Thank your lucky stars you will have missed the 'thing' that was Direct Entry Artificer. Basic Training to S/Sgt in one fell swoop.

Black Hand
Had one as an instructor at SEME in 79/80 who had his rank badges sewn onto the wrong arm and forgot which hand to salute with :roll: Good example to set to a young crafty!!
 
#16
WAKENING DISPUTE said:
Would someone please explain to me the difference between an Artisan and an Articifer, it seems to me that the Artisan SSgt has achieved his rank through hard work and labour, the Articifer thru butt kissing! Am i right?
I think the artificer achieved his rank by being able to spell artificer.

I was posted to Lemgo.
 
#17
WAKENING DISPUTE said:
Would someone please explain to me the difference between an Artisan and an Articifer, it seems to me that the Artisan SSgt has achieved his rank through hard work and labour, the Articifer thru butt kissing! Am i right?
Artificers gain their position due to a combination of Ambition, ability, motivation and determination not to mention an 18-month academic course. That is not to say that artisans don’t have some if not all of those qualities. You have to make the conscious decision to want to be the train driver and not one of the passengers.

Dave
 
#18
Just one thought, why does the corps not make it compulsory that all candidates for artificer training must be substansive Sergeant and upon completion gain the rank of WOII. Surely this would remove inexperienced tiffy's while opening up more artisan SSGT posts. The tiffys would be managers the artisans would run the sections on the shop floor. It seems to work in other arms!!
 
#19
As a tiffy of an RA battery fitter section, I have heard all these arguments before, all as valid as each other. I have 2 excellent Artisan Sgts (VM and GW Tech) who run my shop floor while I am kept busy by the powers that be juggling the stuff from 'above'. As a tradesman, I miss being on the shop floor but as Obi-Wan says, I chose my path. I took over from a very good Artisan SSgt, who ran the section very well and left big boots to fill. It seems that the ones who manage to keep this argument going are totally blind to the fact that both disciplines have their place, or are bitter and twisted failures from the tiffy board. You have to ask yourself which side of the line you fall on fellas.

By the way, the RA are looking very hard at our system and comparing their Gunnery Careers Course (substantive Sgt to WO2 in most cases) to see which is best practice. Interesting to see dond50 pick up on the reverse.

Whatever happens the whole thing is getting a bit threadbare as a forum topic, in here or in the Crafty.
 
#20
bigspanner said:
one several years ago now as well, whilst serving with the KRH in York Bks...he was an AQMS ECE then, What a complete chod he was!

:twisted: yea he was well know as the ginger whinger and was out in Bosnia with us....He stood still as a WO2 for a very long time though....


proved that the system could be bypassed :idea:
I think this must be the same bloke who was a Q man at 2 Bn in the early '90s - if it is he's at Andover now as an ASM.
 

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