Arthur Labinjo-Hughes - How do we stop child abuse / neglect in the UK?

How do we stop child abuse / neglect in the UK?

  • Stop foreign aid spend, put the money back into UK education, health, social services, etc

    Votes: 65 69.1%
  • Anyone wanting to be a parent needs to pass a mandatory training and education course in parenting

    Votes: 38 40.4%
  • People with drug / alcohol addictions are prohibited from having a child

    Votes: 60 63.8%
  • People with criminal records of 'high tariff' crimes are prohibited from having a child

    Votes: 37 39.4%
  • Raise taxes to increase spend to education, health, social services, etc

    Votes: 11 11.7%
  • A mentor for every child - every child has a mentor until they are 18 as a point of support etc

    Votes: 9 9.6%

  • Total voters
    94

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Again, Radio 4. I had to rip the car off the road to start phoning them as I was frothing at the mouth so much from Any Questions / Any Answers.

Most of us will have read and know of the horror of what happened to Arthur.

My question is this:

How do we stop it from happening? How do we make this country more like the civilised western country it's meant to be and less like a ******* third world shithole?

Child abuse is quite common. That's because definitions have changed and it can be mental, physical, sexual, emotional, etc. From not washing them, not feeding them, to exposure to drugs in the home or aggression and violence (observing domestic abuse, etc), to lack of engagement from the parents (younger generation sat playing on their phone rather than spending time with their child).

I've gone into hundreds of homes where I've seen varying degrees of neglect or abuse. I was once told by a social worker that I'd got out to a house as I had concerns that, "It's okay, this is the average for the area and there's food in the cupboard" as the toddler walked by without a nappy on a floor covered in dog piss and shit, rooms pretty much upside down and the mum of 19 with the brother in the bedroom spaced out his face.

My view on it is fairly simple - some people can't figure out how to drive a car, some people can't figure out how to plaster a wall (hi!) and some people can't figure out how to raise a child, nor perhaps did they ever want to in the first place.

So what do we do? What are the solutions?

Radio 4 are fairly fannying about the idea that some people are just evil, or capable of badness, which is a shame because that's the truth of it. Quentin Letts said that this situation is abnormal, which it isn't - the outcome is but not the journey to it, but it shows a reluctance on the part of many people to face reality.

Of course, two or three weeks and it'll be forgot about, but nothing new there.

I've put a few ideas below, but feel free to add your own. In terms of people being prohibited from having children, the obvious comeback is 'human rights' - but to that I say, what about the human rights of a child being born into a family and not to have to suffer physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental abuse or emotional abuse and to live and be brought up in a loving and safe environment?

Yeah, not many liberal types seem to give a **** about what the child wants, eh?

ETA: This is based on the ideal that we -could- stop it..sad truth is, we can't.
 
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Most people don't seem to want to hand government agencies either the authority to monitor their family affairs or the power to intervene in them. At the same time they think it should be obvious who's an unfit parent.

It's only going to be obvious if you're allowed to look deeply enough; and you can only act to prevent tragedy if you have the powers to.

**** being a Social Worker these days.
 
Your options do not include the ultimate penalty - The Death Penalty, which IMHO for her should have been the sentence, possibly for him too as he must have been party to the abuse which was being handed out.
 
Of your options increased social service spending is the only one with a modicum of hope. But at this case highlights, they are as incompetent as many of the parents who commit these acts. More money is not the solution - just like more money is not gonna save the NHS - an actual desire, willingness and the freedom to intervene in these cases is the only real option. And sadly, UK PLC and Social Services has none of that.
 

RABC

LE
Maybe it should start at the top of some of the social service departments. Yet again another boss has been allowed to retire on a full pension, when questions were being asked. I understand her previous job was in a similar role, and she wasn't doing well there either. Isn't anyone accountable ?

I’m still waiting for the “lessons will be learned” quote.
 
Radio 4 are fairly fannying about the idea that some people are just evil, or capable of badness, which is a shame because that's the truth of it. Quentin Letts said that this situation is abnormal, which it isn't - the outcome is but not the journey to it, but it shows a reluctance on the part of many people to face reality.



ETA: This is based on the ideal that we -could- stop it..sad truth is, we can't.
My Bold.
Unfortunately true.
We cannot stop evil from happening in a civilised democracy.
All we can do is clean up afterwards.
I am certainly not going to blame the Social workers as I would not want their job.
 

Issi

LE
Maybe it should start at the top of some of the social service departments. Yet again another boss has been allowed to retire on a full pension, when questions were being asked. I understand her previous job was in a similar role, and she wasn't doing well there either. Isn't anyone accountable ?

I’m still waiting for the “lessons will be learned” quote.

It was mentioned on the Jeremy Vine show a couple of days ago, along with

“Look, lets not jump to conclusions”
 
ETA: This is based on the ideal that we -could- stop it..sad truth is, we can't.
That.

No matter what you do the sad truth is some people shouldn't be allowed oxygen, never mind children. There is no mechanism in place for denying scum the opportunity to have and look after kids, only to remove the kids once they get hurt. Hopefully that comes before serious injury or death.

Options 1 and 5 are probably good ideas but won't make much difference to the poor little sods in question. Options 2, 3 and 4 are all good ideas but have about as much chance of being made law as I do of winning the lottery. Option 6 is (in theory) already in place and any attempt to make it more rigorous will become another box-ticking exercise.
 
Some people do not deserve to have kids. I freely admit, the circumstances of this crime made me cry. Recording the boy's suffering, how sick is this bitch? I hope both of these s***bags get the kickings that they so richly deserve.
 
Offer the usual suspects a reasonable amount of money-say £10 grand- to be irreversibly sterilised.
A lack of any form of forward thinking, other than all the drugs/booze/gash tats that can be had, should have them flocking.
 
I won’t hold back
Execution plain and simple
Be it .455 or the gallows

On the condition it passes four levels of review ensuring no miscarriage of justice

With the amount of technology available none should be afraid to seek help
 
Most people don't seem to want to hand government agencies either the authority to monitor their family affairs or the power to intervene in them. At the same time they think it should be obvious who's an unfit parent.

It's only going to be obvious if you're allowed to look deeply enough; and you can only act to prevent tragedy if you have the powers to.

**** being a Social Worker these days.
I would be more sympathetic had my repeatedly voiced concerns not been met with
We know there are problems bu we think she can improve*
Its not neglect she has no food in the house and spends it all on alcohol - If freinds neighbours and you stump up cash ./ food - since the child is still fed and she knows it will be.
Amongst other evasions in order to justify leaving my daughter with someone you wouldnt trust to run a bath

Certainly strikes me that in my experience and the experience of several others - they will do their damndest to ignore any complaints and take action if the solution is perhaps the children are better off with the father.


*No she didnt and ultimatly my daughter was taken into care - of course as the father it was none of my business and so not only was I not informed of this - to add insult to injury I was still paying her mother child support** - her other children were removed from her 3 years ago upon which she moved in with a new bloke and had another kid - who cant be removed until she fucks up its life as well.

**Easy to do when contact is limited to phone calls and mother says 'she still doesnt want to speak to you - but shes ok' and concerns over daughters welfare means she does not have her own phone or social media footprint - (inadvertantly) helping the lie?

Do I sound bitter and angry - yes? - good ive conveyed exactly how i feel
 
I have a four year old grandson who looks very similar to the murdered child who was killed by these scum albeit the poor little lad who was killed was two years older.

A blunt rusty knife and surgery without anaesthetics keeps coming to mind but that’s just how I personally feel about these two.

I think a proper more realistic course of action would be to empower social services departments to take serious measures if they thought a child was at risk.

At the moment, child monitoring is largely hit and miss despite past occasions when children have been let down by the system. Victoria Climbie anyone and there have been some more recent tragedies since her death.

Each time, there is a public outcry and the government says we will change the system to ensure it can’t happen again. Until the next time!

The problem partly is that these are periodic events with gaps of several years between them. There will be an inquiry of sorts and a report compiled and it’s recommendations implemented.

Well it’s evident that whatever has been implemented in response to past child murders by those who are supposed to be actually caring for them isn’t enough by any stretch of the imagination.

New measures need to be much more drastic and there needs to be an accompanying change of philosophy and a significant investment in childcare facilities for at risk children.

Firstly, the bar for more drastic action needs to be set lower. The primary motive of any social work professional will be to try and keep the family together. There is good reason for that motive but risk assessments need to be given a higher rating on the actual risk element with the child being moved to a safe place more likely to happen if the risk element indicates that. If any in doubt, get the children out.

Secondly, there needs to be a much better infrastructure in place readily available to intervene where needed 24hrs every day of the year. That can be a number of things. Institutions are not the best places to send children even on a short term basis. The best way forward is to have people including families who will take in children and care for them on a temporary basis until a longer term solution is decided on.

These safe havens should be trained people in an already established family situation who are trained to deal with these kind of issues and are known to to the authorities.

Thirdly, there needs to be the right level of investment across the board to ensure that the service is viable and can respond instantly to any demands. That costs money. What price do you place on the lives of vulnerable children. I think there shouldn't be a ceiling to that question.

Once children are in a safe place, their future upbringing can be assessed and decisions made what will need to happen for the children to be safely raised up.

So in summary, change the priority to removing children, put the necessary proper infrastructure in place to enable that to happen and provide the necessary funding to ensure lack of resources doesn’t hamper the system.

My two pennies worth.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
Some people do not deserve to have kids. I freely admit, the circumstances of this crime made me cry. Recording the boy's suffering, how sick is this bitch? I hope both of these s***bags get the kickings that they so richly deserve.
Me too - and I don't usually cry. The wanton cruelty and lack of any compassion whatsoever seem even more pronounced than in other cases. I think that evil pair of cnuts enjoyed torturing that poor child. It would be nice to think they get some kind of retribution in prison but they will probably have extra protection.

Unfortunately it will happen again, is probably happening right now. There are some sick and evil people. In terms of getting to the children before the parents can harm them - I don't know the figures, do we we remove sufficient numbers of children from potentially abusive or neglectful environments? Probably not but how do you know with clarity what outcomes are likely before damage is caused. Feels as if social workers are damned if the do and if they don't. Not a job I could or would do.
 
I won’t hold back
Execution plain and simple
Be it .455 or the gallows

On the condition it passes four levels of review ensuring no miscarriage of justice

With the amount of technology available none should be afraid to seek help
I cannot disagree, but IMHO most people who do this sort of thing don't expect to get caught so it is not a deterrent.
 

hamper

Old-Salt
Whatever the answer is, our present society is nowhere close to solving a problem that is getting worse. Contrary to many people's view I think there is definitely a case for capital punishment.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
As you say, we can't stop it, we can however make sure that people who do it are made to regret the day they were born. Proper sentencing and a lifetime in prison that is punishment, not rehabilitation when a case is as clear cut as this one. A full review of every person who had dealing with this case and a ruthless cull of anyone from top to bottom who was responsible for letting it happen.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
If an adult starved, beat and abused another adult to death what would their sentence be?

It does feel that people get lighter sentences for killing a child when I expect most feel you should be looking at the same sentence for killing an adult in that manner and then doubling it in the case of a child.

I suspect both mongs are incapable of guilt or remorse - but I hope something about what they have done eats away at them and corrodes them. Neither should ever be released from custody.
 

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