Army wont honour our war hero son

#2
Sad, but a non-story, he died of natural causes not enemy action.
 
#4
My sincere sympathy to his family but frankly, no. He wasn't killed in action or even on active service. He died in service from an illness unconnected with the Army. If we start to change the rules to accomodate one grieving family then where will it end, the whole thing will become a farce. Sadly in this day and age some people just can't accept that there are rules and conditions and they exist for a reason.

I'm not just saying this to be a c*ck, this young lad served in my former Regiment.
 
#5
He'll get his name on the Armed Forces Memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum at least. Everyone who dies in service does.
 
#7
wedge35 said:
He'll get his name on the Armed Forces Memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum at least. Everyone who dies in service does.
I don't believe he will,

For inclusion on the National Armed Forces Memorial, the person would have to have died a service-related death.

He would, however, be named on the National Roll of Honour, which is, as you say, is for all who have died in service.

Somebody named on the Memorial would also be included in the National Roll of Honour but not all on the Roll of Honour are named on the Memorial.

I'm assuming the parents are referring to the National Roll of Honour- in which case, there's no problem, he will be included.

Possibly this may just be shoddy journalism.

I don't envy those who have to make the decision for inclusion on the memorial, some,for example KIA are obvious candidates but some are more difficult to decide.

As these rules have been applied for everyone who has died in service since 1947, (obviously for most, retrospectively) it just wouldn't be fair to bend the rules for an individual.
 
#8
Tricky one considering he was on his way back from Ganners so technically he was on a tour! before returning!
 
#9
How about RTAs, I know they get the Elizebeth Cross. They haven't died as a result of enemy action, but do they get full honours?

Would the lad likely have died had he not deployed to Afghanistan, I know the (now Danish) hospital in Bastion is one of the best in the world but could the flight over have triggered it?

These are genuine questions not rhetorical ones.
 
#10
If he died in service of natural causes he will go on the Roll of honour, but his name will not go on the wall, I just checked out an Old friend who died in NI and thats what it said, but another who died in a RTA in the FI is on the wall
 
#11
mark1234 said:
Would the lad likely have died had he not deployed to Afghanistan, I know the (now Danish) hospital in Bastion is one of the best in the world but could the flight over have triggered it?
I think you will find that it is still very much British and currently being run by our Jock friends from 205 Fd Hospital.
 
#12
Tawahi-50 said:
wedge35 said:
He'll get his name on the Armed Forces Memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum at least. Everyone who dies in service does.
I don't believe he will,

For inclusion on the National Armed Forces Memorial, the person would have to have died a service-related death.

He would, however, be named on the National Roll of Honour, which is, as you say, is for all who have died in service.

Somebody named on the Memorial would also be included in the National Roll of Honour but not all on the Roll of Honour are named on the Memorial.

I'm assuming the parents are referring to the National Roll of Honour- in which case, there's no problem, he will be included.

Possibly this may just be shoddy journalism.

I don't envy those who have to make the decision for inclusion on the memorial, some,for example KIA are obvious candidates but some are more difficult to decide.

As these rules have been applied for everyone who has died in service since 1947, (obviously for most, retrospectively) it just wouldn't be fair to bend the rules for an individual.
My mistake, seems you're right mate. Just checked and apparently the memorial at the NMA only lists those KIA or killed in training accidents etc.
 
#13
Dull_Cherry_Red said:
mark1234 said:
Would the lad likely have died had he not deployed to Afghanistan, I know the (now Danish) hospital in Bastion is one of the best in the world but could the flight over have triggered it?
I think you will find that it is still very much British and currently being run by our Jock friends from 205 Fd Hospital.
Ah ok, sorry.

When I was there the medics were talking about handing over to the Danes and we had a few Danish medics come out on IRT shouts with us.
 
#14
tropper66 said:
If he died in service of natural causes he will go on the Roll of honour, but his name will not go on the wall, I just checked out an Old friend who died in NI and thats what it said, but another who died in a RTA in the FI is on the wall
My understanding is that, in the case of RTAs the criterion is whether it is service related.

A RTA in the Falklands is very likely to be service related whereas a death of soldiers in a car crash returning say, to Bulford from weekend leave, may not be seen as service-related.

I've checked on a Green Jacket who was killed in a motorbike accident in the Far East and his name is not on the wall but is on the ROH

If anyone wants to check on names they are aware of, the link is:
Armed Forces Memorial/Roll of Honour
 
#15
Just checked my mate who died in an RTA in BAOR, not service related - he is there.

Edited to add

Just checked another mate (drink driving fatality) and he is also there.
 
#16
There's a few perspectives here.

My ex missuses grand dad served in Korea and was in the vicinity when Bill Speakman got his VC (he was BW and attached to the KOSB with Speakman) and was involved in that particular shindig.

He's been out for centuries but has confided to me that he would like a military funeral, complete with BW piper. The time he was in is the most important time of his life as far as he is concerned and he still sees himself as an "ex squaddie" as opposed to a civvie.

I encourage him just so that I can wear my paltry 4 medals and pull the equivalent of a funeral bridesmaid.

Being a soldier is a privilege. I know we all get very jaded about that and, especially when you are in, think nothing about it, but once you are out it means a great deal.

Going back to the subject of the original story. his parents will be seeing him as a fallen soldier, something that I am sure both he and them were proud of. What would be the harm in a mil funeral? He didn't get killed by the enemy bit still died in service, not exactly something to get p1ssed off about.

Even if that extended to every ex mil that requested it (A small percent of a small percent, I'm sure), then so what? They are actually honouring the military by requesting that what they feel as the most important time of their lives is publicised at their last p1ss up.
 
#17
Aunty Stella said:
They are actually honouring the military by requesting that what they feel as the most important time of their lives is publicised at their last p1ss up.
pretty much.

I cant see how its a massive issue, but i guess thats just the way things are. This bloke clearly presents an interesting case as it could be argued that his death was a result of his flight/tour - as has been said above.
 
#18
War hero? I don't mean to speak ill of the dead but he never even made it to the AO. Had he served elsewhere?

"The Memorial was constructed to provide recognition of the men and women of our Armed and Merchant Services who have lost their lives in conflict as a result of terrorist action or on training exercises since the end of the Second World War"

He doesn't qualify - according to that definition.
 
#19
The more I look at the National Memorial website, the more odd it becomes.

14. Who is included on the memorial?

In general, members of the UK Armed Forces killed on duty, or as a result of terrorist action since the end of the Second World War are included. Members of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and the Merchant Navy who died in conflict zones while in direct support of the Armed Forces are also included.


He was clearly on duty, and so should be on the memorial.

28. Who will be included on the Rolls of Honour?

They will record the names of those who have died in Service, regardless of the cause, in the Royal Navy and the Army. They will be similar to the existing Rolls of Honour for the Royal Air Force


He died in service and the cause is irrelevant so he should be on the Roll of Honour.

The Trustees of the Memorial have discretion in all cases and they decide who goes on and who doesn't - not the Army and not the MOD.

All very confusing.
 

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