Army WO3s and RAF WO1s

Status
Not open for further replies.

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
The thing is John, I’m the SME on Ammunition and explosives, which includes GW.

You’re a mediocre, passed over major. You’ve heard a little information and adopted it as gospel.

What constraint would you like to hear about? It being HCC 1.2F (do you know why?). It’s susceptibility to RF hazards? Constraints on trundling?

Or are you referring to pre firing checks? Which are not classed as constraints.

As I said, ambiguous, your stupidity doesn’t remove that.
The thing is, which really is quite funny, you're totally out of your depth here and have no idea what you're talking about. Absolutely none. It's got nothing to do with "explosive safety" or "HCC 1.2F" or "susceptibility to RF hazards" or "constraints on trundling" or "pre firing checks". You may well have been an SME on ammo and explosives, but that has nothing to do with Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" which you also absurdly claimed to be an expert on, saying equally absurdly I knew nothing about it.

Your field of expertise, where you used to be an SME, has nothing to do with that at all. It's about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" - your words, not mine, about which you obviously know nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

It's not your fault - there's no possible reason why you could, would or should know anything about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" . It's simply not your area of expertise so it's understandable that you don't know the first thing about it. What's less understandable is why you'd feel the need to pretend to.
 
The thing is, which really is quite funny, you're totally out of your depth here and have no idea what you're talking about. Absolutely none. It's got nothing to do with "explosive safety" or "HCC 1.2F" or "susceptibility to RF hazards" or "constraints on trundling" or "pre firing checks". You may well have been an SME on ammo and explosives, but that has nothing to do with Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" which you also absurdly claimed to be an expert on, saying equally absurdly I knew nothing about it.

Your field of expertise, where you used to be an SME, has nothing to do with that at all. It's about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" - your words, not mine, about which you obviously know nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

It's not your fault - there's no possible reason why you could, would or should know anything about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" . It's simply not your area of expertise so it's understandable that you don't know the first thing about it. What's less understandable is why you'd feel the need to pretend to.
It has everything to do with use and operation in the field. You really need to get a little more educated John.

Why don’t you say what you think it is, then I (and the other ATOs on here) can have a good laugh.

You still haven’t told me what the effective range is.
 
Let me ask you an unambiguous question

What is the effective range of Milan?
Hate to disillusion you, but unlike mine where there is only one correct and obvious answer, yours is very ambiguous.

Which Milan missile system? There've been a number; two when I was using it, three when I was serving, and at least two more since including ER (adding another km max effective / operational range).

Minimum effective range? Or maximum effective range?

Effective against what?

And do you mean 'effective' as in when the wire runs out or the official effective operating range by the book?
 
The thing is, which really is quite funny, you're totally out of your depth here and have no idea what you're talking about. Absolutely none. It's got nothing to do with "explosive safety" or "HCC 1.2F" or "susceptibility to RF hazards" or "constraints on trundling" or "pre firing checks". You may well have been an SME on ammo and explosives, but that has nothing to do with Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" which you also absurdly claimed to be an expert on, saying equally absurdly I knew nothing about it.

Your field of expertise, where you used to be an SME, has nothing to do with that at all. It's about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" - your words, not mine, about which you obviously know nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

It's not your fault - there's no possible reason why you could, would or should know anything about Milan's "USE OR OPERATION IN THE FIELD" . It's simply not your area of expertise so it's understandable that you don't know the first thing about it. What's less understandable is why you'd feel the need to pretend to.
agreed
 
Hate to disillusion you, but unlike mine where there is only one correct and obvious answer, yours is very ambiguous.
Then you won’t mind giving it. Or the only logical conclusion is that it’s another one of your games.

Why would I quote systems that are not in British service.

You choose which system, but make sure you state which one to avoid confusion.

As you are struggling with the effective range of a guided weapon, as an ATO, I’m here to help. The minimum range at which the system can effectively engage a target to the maximum range it can effectively engage a target. I would like to see an answer in the format: xxxM to xxxM.

Really John, potential ATs on their basic course never struggled with this, it’s a bread and butter question.
 
It has everything to do with use and operation in the field. You really need to get a little more educated John.

Why don’t you say what you think it is, then I (and the other ATOs on here) can have a good laugh.

You still haven’t told me what the effective range is.
You really are being even more stupid than normal on this.

Limitations on "USE AND OPERATIONS IN THE FIELD" has absolutely nothing to do with what you or any other ATOs are taught / know. Absolutely nothing.

Milan's use and operation in the field is limited by the system, and that dictates how it can be used and operated effectively. If you don't know those limitations, which have nothing to do with "trundling", "explosive safety", etc, then you have no idea how to use and operate Milan in the field. None. Nada. Zip. Your constraints are all factors to be considered, particularly when it comes to handling and storage, but they have nothing to do with its use and operation in the field.

I'll give you a hint that has to tell you the answer.

All your constraints are the same wherever the system's used. Mine aren't.

The limitations on how you can use Milan effectively as it has been in a number of theatres from the Falklands to Africa, Syria, both Gulf Wars (both sides), Afghanistan (both sides), etc, are totally different to how it could be used effectively in BAOR which is what it was bought for (hence the question).

Are you seriously that stupid you still can't see it and don't know the problem?
 
You really are being even more stupid than normal on this.

Limitations on "USE AND OPERATIONS IN THE FIELD" has absolutely nothing to do with what you or any other ATOs are taught / know. Absolutely nothing.

Milan's use and operation in the field is limited by the system, and that dictates how it can be used and operated effectively. If you don't know those limitations, which have nothing to do with "trundling", "explosive safety", etc, then you have no idea how to use and operate Milan in the field. None. Nada. Zip. Your constraints are all factors to be considered, particularly when it comes to handling and storage, but they have nothing to do with its use and operation in the field.

I'll give you a hint that has to tell you the answer.

All your constraints are the same wherever the system's used. Mine aren't.

The limitations on how you can use Milan effectively as it has been in a number of theatres from the Falklands to Africa, Syria, both Gulf Wars (both sides), Afghanistan (both sides), etc, are totally different to how it could be used effectively in BAOR which is what it was bought for (hence the question).

Are you seriously that stupid you still can't see it and don't know the problem?
This just looks like utter bullshit. Let’s cut to the chase, state what you think is the most important constraint.

While you’re at it, don’t forget the range.

You are required to adhere to all constraints. LUMAT is a different matter. Can you remember what LUMAT is?
 
Limitations on "USE AND OPERATIONS IN THE FIELD" has absolutely nothing to do with what you or any other ATOs are taught / know. Absolutely nothing.
Caveat. I know next to nothing about Milan.

The 2 major gripes I recall hearing about Milan from DC's and upwards on it's limitations on '' USE AND OPERATIONS IN THE FIELD '' were

1. Wire guided.

2. Something to do with air bottles.
 
As you are struggling with the effective range of a guided weapon, as an ATO, I’m here to help. The minimum range at which the system can effectively engage a target to the maximum range it can effectively engage a target. I would like to see an answer in the format: xxxM to xxxM.

Really John, potential ATs on their basic course never struggled with this, it’s a bread and butter question.
Not "struggling" at all, apart from with your question which is meaningless apart from to an AT reading the book, not someone using the system. You're asking a question from an AT's perspective, not that of someone using the weapon operationally.

Minimum effective range? It depends entirely on the target. Officially it's 200m. In practice the first stage takes it about 3m so in theory it's not effective at all until then but I wouldn't volunteer to put my head in front of it 2.95m away. You might, up to you. In practice it's 300-400m as that's how long it normally takes the firer to get full control of the missile, but as long as the target didn't change speed or direction an experienced firer who could pre-aim and judge the vehicle's speed and direction correctly and apply the right lead, or against a static target, could make it 200m - even less if it was a big static target, and obviously targets and how much of them are visible varies.

Maximum effective range? Technically first 1,990m then 2000m, but in practice around 2,100m as that's when the wire runs out, at least on Milan 1 and 2 which is all I've used and have experience of (the others, as I've said, are after my time but pre-yours) Again, I wouldn't like to have stood 2,110m away to prove a point, but if you would up to you.
 
This just looks like utter bullshit.
Are you serious?

Even putting it right in front of you, you genuinely don't / can't understand why Milan had to be used totally differently in BAOR to the other theatres like the Falklands, Afghanistan, the Gulf, Syria, Libya and Chad, amongst others, and why the deployment and use is completely different?

And you're claiming to be an SME on its 'use and operation in the field'?
 
Not "struggling" at all, apart from with your question which is meaningless apart from to an AT reading the book, not someone using the system. You're asking a question from an AT's perspective, not that of someone using the weapon operationally.

Minimum effective range? It depends entirely on the target. Officially it's 200m. In practice the first stage takes it about 3m so in theory it's not effective at all until then but I wouldn't volunteer to put my head in front of it 2.95m away. You might, up to you. In practice it's 300-400m as that's how long it normally takes the firer to get full control of the missile, but as long as the target didn't change speed or direction an experienced firer who could pre-aim and judge the vehicle's speed and direction correctly and apply the right lead, or against a static target, could make it 200m - even less if it was a big static target, and obviously targets and how much of them are visible varies.

Maximum effective range? Technically first 1,990m then 2000m, but in practice around 2,100m as that's when the wire runs out, at least on Milan 1 and 2 which is all I've used and have experience of (the others, as I've said, are after my time but pre-yours) Again, I wouldn't like to have stood 2,110m away to prove a point, but if you would up to you.
Load of crap.

The effective range is 80m-1980m.

I knew you would google it and I knew google was wrong. Google also tells you that MoD purchased 50,000 missiles, that’s also wrong.
 
Are you serious?

Even putting it right in front of you, you genuinely don't / can't understand why Milan had to be used totally differently in BAOR to the other theatres like the Falklands, Afghanistan, the Gulf, Syria, Libya and Chad, amongst others, and why the deployment and use is completely different?

And you're claiming to be an SME on its 'use and operation in the field'?
You weren’t in any of those theatres, so you wouldn’t know. It wasn’t used in Libya or Chad or Syria and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t used in Afghanistan.

You are making up utter bollocks, you can’t quote your magical constraint and I don’t think you ever used the system. There’s much Walter Mitty about you.
 
Caveat. I know next to nothing about Milan.

The 2 major gripes I recall hearing about Milan from DC's and upwards on it's limitations on '' USE AND OPERATIONS IN THE FIELD '' were

1. Wire guided.

2. Something to do with air bottles.
They only hated it being wire guided because they had to wind the wire back in, it can get tedious if you’ve fired 32 missiles in a concentration.

The bottles refer to use with the MIRA (Milan Infra Red Adaptor) for use in low light conditions, it was heavy, awkward and not very good, everyone whinged about it.
 
Load of crap.

The effective range is 80m-1980m.

I knew you would google it and I knew google was wrong. Google also tells you that MoD purchased 50,000 missiles, that’s also wrong.
Absolute and utter cock. Those are the operating ranges, not the effective ranges. Totally different and you've confused the two.

No googling involved - you just haven't got a fecking clue what you're talking about, and have zero experience with it outside a range or a store. That's why you were an ATO, not infantry or SASC and were totally untrained and unqualified in its use and operation.

You'd be happy standing 79 or 1,981m away? great.

Minimum effective range first of all. I seem to recall someone posting this not long ago:
...the operator has no control for the first 300-400m ...
You were right the first time before you contradicted yourself. How the feck can the weapon be effective when the firer has no control of the fecking missile??? Against a large static target, fine, as I said, but against a small / moving target it's totally ineffective.

Maximum effective range? The wire runs out at around 2,100m - not at 1,980. The weapon's fully effective and receives the same commands until the wire runs out, when the missile crashes.

You don't know the difference between the operating range and the effective range - again, no reason why you should but if you had even a remote idea what you're talking about you would.

Beyond stupid.
 
You weren’t in any of those theatres, so you wouldn’t know. It wasn’t used in Libya or Chad or Syria and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t used in Afghanistan.

You are making up utter bollocks, you can’t quote your magical constraint and I don’t think you ever used the system. There’s much Walter Mitty about you.
WM was entertaining at least.
 
Absolute and utter cock. Those are the operating ranges, not the effective ranges. Totally different and you've confused the two.

No googling involved - you just haven't got a fecking clue what you're talking about, and have zero experience with it outside a range or a store. That's why you were an ATO, not infantry or SASC and were totally untrained and unqualified in its use and operation.

You'd be happy standing 79 or 1,981m away? great.

Minimum effective range first of all. I seem to recall someone posting this not long ago: You were right the first time before you contradicted yourself. How the feck can the weapon be effective when the firer has no control of the fecking missile??? Against a large static target, fine, as I said, but against a small / moving target it's totally ineffective.

Maximum effective range? The wire runs out at around 2,100m - not at 1,980. The weapon's fully effective and receives the same commands until the wire runs out, when the missile crashes.

You don't know the difference between the operating range and the effective range - again, no reason why you should but if you had even a remote idea what you're talking about you would.

Beyond stupid.
More bollocks.

Effective range is the range at which the system is effective - it’s not hard.

Milan gathers at approx 350m, it’s effective range is 80m to 1980m. Anyone trained on Milan would know and understand why this is possible. Do you need me to explain it to you?

It has 1980m of wire spooled on its arse end, you cannot get anymore on.

You still haven’t quoted your magical constraint. It’s obviously something you made up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Threads

Top