Army WO3s and RAF WO1s

And no one on the planet has ever met an RAF WO1 as there's no such thing. (Although apparently QRs say otherwise)
QRs either says something or it doesn't.

There is no "apparently"..

QRs states that 'Master Aircrew' and 'Warrant Officer' are 'warrant officers'. Not 'WO1's or 'Warrant Officers First Class' - just 'warrant officers'.

Unfortunately, QRs (all three, RN, Army and RAF) also state that in the British "Military" (quote) they are WO1s ('Warrant Officers First Class'). In my view that's a very obvious mistake common to all three and they should equally very obviously say "Army", not "military", but ... well ... that's undeniably what they all say and the RAF are, at least technically, in the 'military'.

Hopefully (although TBH I doubt it) that may clarify any remaining confusion over RAF warrant officers (small 'w' and 'o', as in para 125 (1): "the expression "warrant officer" is used in its generic sense, ie, as including airmen of ground trades who hold the rank title of warrant officer and non-commissioned aircrew who hold master aircrew titles."
 
Fookin hallelujah

You managed to square your own circle.
Unfortunately you've overlooked this part:
Unfortunately, QRs (all three, RN, Army and RAF) also state that in the British "Military" (quote) they are WO1s ('Warrant Officers First Class'). In my view that's a very obvious mistake common to all three and they should equally very obviously say "Army", not "military", but ... well ... that's undeniably what they all say and the RAF are, at least technically, in the 'military'.
**
It's a view you hold on your own.
Well ... that's what QRs undeniably say. It may not be what they mean, but it's undeniably what they say.

Reading QRs again (and I'm sure you have access to a copy) they actually say "MILITARY including RM and QARANC" (my bold, their caps). In my view they mean (and should say) "Army, RM and QARANC".

Unless, of course, only the Army, RM and QARANC are "Military" and RN and RAF aren't, which I suppose could be one view and is what you're evidently saying is your view. I'd suggest that's a little unfair on RN.
 
Now that you've deigned to honour the thread with your presence, @Alamo, maybe you could give the answers to those questions you were so insistent should be answered back in the other thread following your claim that "at least we only have one name for each rank" which turned out to be untrue.

I've left out the questions that were never in debate, so to refresh your memory:
FACT - MAcrew and WO are different ranks. Their pay scales overlap depending on seniority and/or role but they are distinct ranks. Am I right, yes or no?
I'd suggest that's been done to death already and it isn't "yes or no" as it all depends what you mean by "different ranks". By any known definition (and if you can provide a different definition from any recognised source I'd be happy to be corrected) they are the same rank but different "rank titles" (to use the term used by the RAF in QRs, para 125 (1), page 4-4) since they both have equal status and confer equal authority and either one can be senior to the other depending on seniority of promotion date.
Furthermore, referring to the original point, no branch, trade or unit of the RAF has different names or badges for its ranks. Am I right, yes or no?

No waffle, obfuscation or links to the Families Federation website, just ATFQ.
'No'. You're very clearly 'wrong'. Since there may be an argument over English and interpretation, I've used pictures to ensure there can be no such confusion.

Here's a picture of one "Warrant Officer" (well, two, to be pedantic):
1550738631307.png


... and here's a picture of another:
1550738927998.png

... and yet another:
1550741000573.png

I haven't been to Specsavers recently, but those do look like two very different badges (and probably three different names / rank titles).

... and here's a picture of one Flight Sergeant, who's aircrew:

1550738106659.png

...and here's a picture of another, who's not aircrew:
1550738230787.png

... again, those do look like different badges for the same rank, in different trades. ... and while I recognise that various sites (and you) differentiate between 'Aircrew' and 'Airmen / Airwomen', QRs for the RAF appears to make no such distinction and "Flight Sergeant" sounds very like "Flight Sergeant".

... and here's another one, although I'm not sure what actual rank (as distinct from name or rank title) these chaps are, although one appears to be a Warrant Officer and one a Flt Sgt or Sgt:
1550740762230.png

..... although this smart chapess is reportedly a Deputy Drum Major with the rank of Sergeant:
1550741334153.png


Well, I'm correct on all counts.
..... Well, ..... evidently 'no' you're not.

As you would say yourself:
Are you going to answer my questions John Alamo, or just obfuscate as normal?
 
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SQMS who normally was a Staff Sergeant was referred to as Q.
Q is for WO2(SQMS) - Staff QuarterMaster Sergeant.

An SQMS - Squadron QuarterMaster Sergeant is referred to as SQ or Staff. It would be inappropriate to refer to them as Q.
 
Now that you've deigned to honour the thread with your presence, @Alamo, maybe you could give the answers to those questions you were so insistent should be answered back in the other thread following your claim that "at least we only have one name for each rank" which turned out to be untrue.

I've left out the questions that were never in debate, so to refresh your memory:
I'd suggest that's been done to death already and it isn't "yes or no" as it all depends what you mean by "different ranks". By any known definition (and if you can provide a different definition from any recognised source I'd be happy to be corrected) they are the same rank but different "rank titles" (to use the term used by the RAF in QRs, para 125 (1), page 4-4) since they both have equal status and confer equal authority and either one can be senior to the other depending on seniority of promotion date.
'No'. You're very clearly 'wrong'. Since there may be an argument over English and interpretation, I've used pictures to ensure there can be no such confusion.

Here's a picture of one "Warrant Officer" (well, two, to be pedantic): View attachment 378939

... and here's a picture of another:
View attachment 378941
... and yet another:
View attachment 378944
I haven't been to Specsavers recently, but those do look like two very different badges (and probably three different names / rank titles).

... and here's a picture of one Flight Sergeant, who's aircrew:

View attachment 378936
...and here's a picture of another, who's not aircrew:
View attachment 378938
... again, those do look like different badges for the same rank, in different trades. ... and while I recognise that various sites (and you) differentiate between 'Aircrew' and 'Airmen / Airwomen', QRs for the RAF appears to make no such distinction and "Flight Sergeant" sounds very like "Flight Sergeant".

... and here's another one, although I'm not sure what actual rank (as distinct from name or rank title) these chaps are, although one appears to be a Warrant Officer and one a Flt Sgt or Sgt:
View attachment 378943
..... although this smart chapess is reportedly a Deputy Drum Major with the rank of Sergeant:
View attachment 378945

..... Well, ..... evidently 'no' you're not.

As you would say yourself:
John, you have far, far, far too much time on your hands!

Go outside and get some fresh air!

MB
 
Q is for WO2(SQMS) - Staff QuarterMaster Sergeant.

An SQMS - Squadron QuarterMaster Sergeant is referred to as SQ or Staff. It would be inappropriate to refer to them as Q.
We actually called our RQMS "RQ", TQMS "TQ", CQMS "Colour", and the only person ever referred as "Q" was the QMSI, in all the units I've been in (even a Corps!).
 
We actually called our RQMS "RQ", TQMS "TQ", CQMS "Colour", and the only person ever referred as "Q" was the QMSI, in all the units I've been in (even a Corps!).
How Quaint.

What’s your point.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
We actually called our RQMS "RQ", TQMS "TQ", CQMS "Colour", and the only person ever referred as "Q" was the QMSI, in all the units I've been in (even a Corps!).
Even the Master Chef, who is normally a WO2, SQMS by appointment?
 
Reading QRs again (and I'm sure you have access to a copy) they actually say "MILITARY including RM and QARANC" (my bold, their caps). In my view they mean (and should say) "Army, RM and QARANC".
Don't exclude the RN from that list. They may not be creating any more WO2s, but there are still a fair few of them around, and until they all are either promoted or leave, there will be a need to differentiate between the two.
 
Don't exclude the RN from that list. They may not be creating any more WO2s, but there are still a fair few of them around, and until they all are either promoted or leave, there will be a need to differentiate between the two.
Farking fish heads? Fark off.
 
@John G

Surely View attachment 378952 these WOs are command WOs and are therefore (assuming RAF follow the army on this) actually commissioned officers...
As John points out, they have taken a different route. What they seem to have chosen to do is commission them immediately on completion of their assignment, and count the time served as the CWO as time in the higher rank (Ft Lt) for promotion purposes.
 
Even the Master Chef, who is normally a WO2, SQMS by appointment?
You're right, sorry, also the ACC SQMS.
Can’t possibly be true. John G hasn’t said so.
Quite happy to be corrected, as always.
What’s your point.
That your point that "it would be inappropriate to refer to them as Q" was incorrect - it depends entirely on what's customary / correct / appropriate in each unit.
 
As John points out, they have taken a different route. What they seem to have chosen to do is commission them immediately on completion of their assignment, and count the time served as the CWO as time in the higher rank (Ft Lt) for promotion purposes.
Not necessarily - only one CASWO has so far been commissioned or, AFAIK, applied to be commissioned. He was 48 when commissioned, after 30 years in the ranks, so if in the Army he'd have already passed his expiry date.

Edit: I should add, though, that the Army CWOs would still be eligible to be serving as WOs and then be commissioned at the end of their time as WOs, so this is no excuse.
 

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