Army WO3s and RAF WO1s

You could, of course, attempt to explain how you managed to talk so much utter cr@p about Milan, and the very simple impossibility of having an identical max effective range and length of control wire, but no ... a little tantrum's so much better.
I’m not talking crap about Milan, you are. You stated you had open source material, show it.
 
You could, of course, attempt to explain how you managed to talk so much utter cr@p about Milan, and the very simple impossibility of having an identical max effective range and length of control wire, but no ... a little tantrum's so much better.
Shut the fcuk up about Milan. Every time someone bags you about the lies you peddle, we get "Yes, but Milan". I've never met you or Dingerr, but I know whose counsel I'd seek. It wouldn't be the man who had his promotions gifted to him in a system that ensured a chair would get to Major if only it served long enough.
 
It was an appalling system, in my view and that of many others, which is why I (and a good few others) wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm not including myself in any of the 'brackets' as after my time at RD I was never really part of it and I was fortunate enough to be able to just enjoy myself but it's a system which has to bear a lot of the responsibility for the Army being in the state it's in now with no possible way of getting out of it unless it's changed from the outside. No civilian organisation would have survived as the Army has, as it would have gone bankrupt years ago.

I've never known any 'flyers' so can't comment on their ability other than that if they're flyers then God help the Army, but the biggest problem is that not only are / were a lot of the best offrs filtered out by the Camberley system simply because they'd upset someone or they didn't match the clubbable doctrine nazi clones, but at least in inf (pretty much all I know so I can't comment elsewhere) nearly all the best offrs who'd gone on to command bns also left as soon as they'd finished command. Of all the CO's I worked for only one stayed on to Brigadier and apart from the best, who sadly died of cancer, all the best COs, without exception, left either soon after commanding the bn or after two years.

Apart from a few exceptions, all that left were either the overly ambitious clawing their way to the top, surrounded and supported by those who were going to do nothing wrong by doing nothing at all, telling them waht a great job they were doing.

Add in that anyone who dares criticise the 'system' is met by a self-defence barrage of either 'you don't know what it's like, we're different' or 'you're bitter because you were passed over, etc, etc'. It's a self-licking lollipop, reliant on past and imagined glories and dwindling public sympathy.
‘An appalling system’? If only you’d been in Sangiovese all world’ve been well.

You really are an embittered old throbber. John G, ‘putting the End in Bell for over four decades’.
 

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I find it quite laughable that you "generally confine my posts to things I know something about and have some experience of". From what I've read on here, your knowledge would cover a smartie. About time you gave it a rest mate, everyone knows you're a bluffing Kunt.
 
Well, that could be a picture of anyone! I don't think I've got any pics with the rank badges visible, and my natty shorts may not look quite so natty, but I can help part of the way with a pic of the original rank slides and my name in Khmer. Not a bad job, really. No idea where the Col's rank slides are, but I've got a Thai military border ID card somewhere with my name on it in Thai and Col's rank if you can read Thai. View attachment 388015
TBH, it doesn't really worry me too much what some people believe or not. The nonsense about Milan is still ongoing, even though that's pretty clear beyond any doubt from the regtl rags, so whatever the "proof" people will believe what they want to believe anyway.
I can read Thai - it says ‘wanker’.

Didn’t you need PWRR slides too or did they refuse to accept you on amalgamation?
 
Well, that could be a picture of anyone! I don't think I've got any pics with the rank badges visible, and my natty shorts may not look quite so natty, but I can help part of the way with a pic of the original rank slides and my name in Khmer. Not a bad job, really. No idea where the Col's rank slides are, but I've got a Thai military border ID card somewhere with my name on it in Thai and Col's rank if you can read Thai. View attachment 388015
TBH, it doesn't really worry me too much what some people believe or not. The nonsense about Milan is still ongoing, even though that's pretty clear beyond any doubt from the regtl rags, so whatever the "proof" people will believe what they want to believe anyway.
I've just passed the pics to the long-haired dictionary (who speaks 4 SE Asian languages) and it seems to be a two syllable name beginning with 'G'. Respecting PERSEC by not spelling out the rest.
 
I've just passed the pics to the long-haired dictionary (who speaks 4 SE Asian languages) and it seems to be a two syllable name beginning with 'G'. Respecting PERSEC by not spelling out the rest.
Don’t worry, I know the rest.
 

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Found a pair of Epaulettes belonging to @John G .....

acf-colonel-army-cadet-force-rank-slide-black-on-olive-green-queens-crown-embroidered-officer-...jpg
 
It was an appalling system, in my view and that of many others, which is why I (and a good few others) wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm not including myself in any of the 'brackets' as after my time at RD I was never really part of it and I was fortunate enough to be able to just enjoy myself but it's a system which has to bear a lot of the responsibility for the Army being in the state it's in now with no possible way of getting out of it unless it's changed from the outside. No civilian organisation would have survived as the Army has, as it would have gone bankrupt years ago.

I've never known any 'flyers' so can't comment on their ability other than that if they're flyers then God help the Army, but the biggest problem is that not only are / were a lot of the best offrs filtered out by the Camberley system simply because they'd upset someone or they didn't match the clubbable doctrine nazi clones, but at least in inf (pretty much all I know so I can't comment elsewhere) nearly all the best offrs who'd gone on to command bns also left as soon as they'd finished command. Of all the CO's I worked for only one stayed on to Brigadier and apart from the best, who sadly died of cancer, all the best COs, without exception, left either soon after commanding the bn or after two years.

Apart from a few exceptions, all that left were either the overly ambitious clawing their way to the top, surrounded and supported by those who were going to do nothing wrong by doing nothing at all, telling them waht a great job they were doing.

Add in that anyone who dares criticise the 'system' is met by a self-defence barrage of either 'you don't know what it's like, we're different' or 'you're bitter because you were passed over, etc, etc'. It's a self-licking lollipop, reliant on past and imagined glories and dwindling public sympathy.
I don’t think it was appalling at selecting the stars. I can’t think of any of those I have known who have reached VVSO rank who weren’t very talented people. Where it didn’t work was on the margins; the promotion stats for those who made the numbers up at Camberley weren’t stellar despite their advantage, meanwhile the best of those who didn’t go often left because they were disadvantaged.

The ICSC system was a huge improvement, but IMHO sacrificing the Div 1 package wasn’t clever. As a result, the Army lost a lot of its deeper skill, which manifests itself in poor program management. And it still haemorrhages talented people from just below the A listers.

My cohort is now retiring; 34 years this week since we commissioned. Those that made the highest ranks were obvious at the start. There are also plenty of bottom thirders retiring as Lt Cols and Cols (and the odd Major). They too were pretty obvious. But many of us in the middle who have had strong careers elsewhere.

Ultimately, what’s the alternative?
 
I’m not talking crap about Milan, you are. You stated you had open source material, show it.
You've already agreed the cable spirals, so as I've already said, there's no need for any open source material (vids of Milan and other wire guided missiles in flight) to show that :
Are you suggesting the cable doesn't spiral? Seriously? Even you can't be that stupid.
No only an idiot would think I said that.
Which brings us back to the very simple question you're either unable or unwilling to answer (I've put it in bold):
  • How exactly does the cable give you a range of 1,980m when it spirals and it's only 1,980 m long, except when it's fired in ideal conditions across perfectly dry, smooth, flat, sand?
  • Link to my source for what? If you're agreeing it spirals, which you evidently are, to get an effective range of 1,980m the cable has to be longer to allow for the spiral in the cable when it's lying in the mud, grass, stones, dirt, crops, over fences, bushes, etc.
It's impossible to have it both ways :rofl::rofl::rofl:. Simply impossible.


Edit:

By 'both ways' I mean an effective range of 1,980m and only 1,980m of cable. You can have one or the other. Not both.
This really is simple. It's impossible for it to be both. You can have EITHER only 1,980m of cable OR you can have a max effective range of 1,980m because you have 'spare' cable to give you the extra length of cable required to get the distance / range (1,980m). As explained in layman's terms here:
In the unlikely event anyone's interested in the mechanics, I'll try to explain it in 'non-Milan' terms.

Think of a reel of heavy duty fishing line - not on a fishing reel, but on a reel like a reel of cotton thread. You then remove the reel, much as you can remove the cardboard tube from a toilet roll, and you unreel it from the inside - if that's a step too far, just picture unreeling it from the outside but without letting the reel turn, so unreeling it off the end.

As you unreel it, the line 'spirals' as that's unavoidable as the line isn't that soft and flexible.

If you have a 100m reel and you walk up a straight road or across a flat, dry beach the reel will run out after about 95m, but you can still get 100m from where you started while holding the reel by pulling the line straight, and as it's a road or dry sand you'll have little resistance and it won't break.

If you walk across country, though, say across a field, the 'spiral' of line gets caught in the grass, earth and dirt and you won't get the full 100m away from where you started without breaking the line or pulling it off the reel - you'll probably only get around 95, maybe 96 or 97m.

... and if you walk across rough ground, over a few bushes and a stream or ditch, you'll probably go even less distance as the line will be snagged, so you'll maybe only go 90, maybe 92 or 93m.

That's exactly what the spool of control line in Milan does. It's 2,100m long, and that's as far as Milan will go in absolutely ideal conditions, along a road or across open desert. Under 'normal' circumstances it'll be a bit less, so around 1,980 or 1,990m. Under the worst, say uphill and across rocky terrain with some bushes and scrub, that could be down to as far as it went without taking up any of the slack from the 'spiral', so around 1,850m.
I doubt you're unable to answer as even a child could understand it, so I'll go for unwilling as it shows beyond any possible doubt that either what you recall or what you were taught was incorrect. To be fair, I'll go for the latter.
 
I've just passed the pics to the long-haired dictionary (who speaks 4 SE Asian languages) and it seems to be a two syllable name beginning with 'G'. Respecting PERSEC by not spelling out the rest.
I couldn't find the Thai military ID so her skills won't be needed there, but I did come across these and I'm sure she can explain the top one, which is my Thai Military border pass, if necessary.

About as conclusive as "documentary proof" gets as I haven't redacted the UN ID numbers. Happy to send the un-redacted originals to most people by PM if necessary.
UNTAC CENS.jpg

Making a big deal of it's absurd since it wasn't and it indicated nothing in terms of anything outside the shambles that was UNTAC and had nothing to do with military ability (rather like a lot of those holding Col's rank, come to think of it), but evidently apparently some people think it's relevant.
 
If you throw even more words at the screen JohnGlitter, people might not realise you're a waffling blowhard with the operational experience of a soft fruit. Or maybe not, you waffling blowhard.

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I couldn't find the Thai military ID so her skills won't be needed there, but I did come across these and I'm sure she can explain the top one, which is my Thai Military border pass, if necessary.

About as conclusive as "documentary proof" gets as I haven't redacted the UN ID numbers. Happy to send the un-redacted originals to most people by PM if necessary.
View attachment 388114
Making a big deal of it's absurd since it wasn't and it indicated nothing in terms of anything outside the shambles that was UNTAC and had nothing to do with military ability (rather like a lot of those holding Col's rank, come to think of it), but evidently apparently some people think it's relevant.
Now that wasn't so difficult was it?

Anything from the actual British Army by the way?
 
Now that wasn't so difficult was it?
It would have been if I hadn't been putting my old, expired passport away, as I had no idea I'd kept them along with other old docs.
Anything from the actual British Army by the way?
What part of
And all that's being "proven to everyone" is that you have less than no idea how postings on a trawl like this work, with no documentation from AG/PB etc at unit level other than signals to the units concerned. The only record I have is an insert slip in my CR, written by Lt Col A R****d-P***e, RE, dated 1 Dec 92, who was in charge of the RE Mine Clearance Det and technically ComBritcon UNTAC, whom I never met as he had only recently arrived in UNTAC and whose predecessor I had also never met. It's also 'Staff In Confidence' so like other things can't be shown here and I could in any case easily knock one up myself in two minutes so it's worthless as "proof" of anything.
did you not understand?

Feel free to contact A R****d-P***e, although as I wrote most of the insert slip, job description, etc, as he had nothing else to go on I doubt he'll recall much in the way of details.

Despite your self-confessed vast military experience you clearly have no idea how these short term trawls work, and not just for UN but MAO and LS as well. It's about as ill-informed as the burbling about posties and support staff, without which some people evidently can't survive. There is nothing from AG / PB, etc as it's purely done by a trawl then signals to the units concerned which didn't include my RHQ. If you haven't been privy to any of these trawls then clearly you weren't considered suitable.
 
It would have been if I hadn't been putting my old, expired passport away, as I had no idea I'd kept them along with other old docs.
What part of
did you not understand?

Feel free to contact A R****d-P***e, although as I wrote most of the insert slip, job description, etc, as he had nothing else to go on I doubt he'll recall much in the way of details.

Despite your self-confessed vast military experience you clearly have no idea how these short term trawls work, and not just for UN but MAO and LS as well. It's about as ill-informed as the burbling about posties and support staff, without which some people evidently can't survive. There is nothing from AG / PB, etc as it's purely done by a trawl then signals to the units concerned which didn't include my RHQ. If you haven't been privy to any of these trawls then clearly you weren't considered suitable.
Of course - you were so special weren't you? They picked you out by name because of your special properties? I've done a couple of OCE tours and I am well aware of how the system works, but unlike you I don't believe I'm the only one (but that's your MO isn't it? The only one who knows anything about anything....).

During one of my OCE tours, I gave an AG chap on TELIC 1 one of my Lt Col rank slides for a few weeks so that he could engage more effectively with the Kuwaitis.

It was no more a 'promotion' than yours was.
 
John, I’ve nothing to tell you that I haven’t already told you. If you don’t understand what maximum range means or that undulating ground has no consequence on the missile flying over it, then you are just really stupid.

Your idiotic assertions yet again point to your lack of experience and grand pontificating from a few buzzwords you picked up in the bar from someone who’s been on a Milan course.

You aniloquent fool.
 
If you throw even more words at the screen JohnGlitter, people might not realise you're a waffling blowhard with the operational experience of a soft fruit. Or maybe not, you waffling blowhard.

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Excuse me, but I’ve had bananas a peaches in my daysack at various times in Afghanistan, therefore soft fruit has more operational experience than John G.
 
I've done a couple of OCE tours and I am well aware of how the system works,
Evidently you're not - the proof's in your posts.
... but unlike you I don't believe I'm the only one (but that's your MO isn't it? The only one who knows anything about anything....).
No, not in the slightest, but in this case evidently the only one who knows anything about UNTAC and, sad to say, one of only two who knows anything about Milan (and the second one isn't an ATO).
During one of my OCE tours, I gave an AG chap on TELIC 1 one of my Lt Col rank slides for a few weeks so that he could engage more effectively with the Kuwaitis.

It was no more a 'promotion' than yours was.
Certainly no more, but actually rather less - you had no authority to do so, and that's one of the many reasons why the Army's now in the state it's in, where other countries no longer take our "engaging" seriously but instead are fed up with British arrogance and look elsewhere for advice and assistance.
 
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