Army Veterans Facing murder charges over Bloody Sunday within two weeks

Shouldn't that read Shorland mounted Brownings? Just saying...
I thought about that but as the Browning is mounted on the Shorland not the other way round I feel my way is correct. If a SUIT is attached to an SLR would you call it a SUIT-mounted SLR or an SLR-mounted SUIT? The Shorland is not attached to the Browning, so Browning-mounted Shorland would surely be correct.
 
Has anybody got a photograph of one of these actually on the streets of Belfast?

I have my doubts but I’m happy to be proven wrong!
There is absolutely no doubt that the Shorlands were deployed in Belfast in the August riots, the policemen who drove them and fired the Brownings gave evidence to Scarman, the RUC has never disputed that they were used.
 
So I Googled a tad more, and found a scanned copy of the good Prof[?] Hanleys's essay about the events of 1969 (it's available here), from which I lifted this screenshot of a sidebar on this very thing:
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Thank you for confirming my suspicion that no such graffiti ever appeared.

There is no doubt that there was massive community anger in Belfast that the IRA seemed to have abandoned their traditional role of Catholic defenders in Belfast (it is a little known fact that the IRA in Belfast in the 1920-21 period were not attached to Sinn Fein but were attached to the Hibernian movement and Joe Devlin, they were more Catholic than Republican in Belfast) in favour of trendy left-wing agit prop in Dublin.

It was that anger that led to the split, with the Provos taking a more traditional Green stance than the Red stance of the Godless Commies in the Stickies, but actual anti-IRA graffiti appearing on walls in Belfast that would indeed be an urban myth.
 
Thank you for confirming my suspicion that no such graffiti ever appeared.

There is no doubt that there was massive community anger in Belfast that the IRA seemed to have abandoned their traditional role of Catholic defenders in Belfast (it is a little known fact that the IRA in Belfast in the 1920-21 period were not attached to Sinn Fein but were attached to the Hibernian movement and Joe Devlin, they were more Catholic than Republican in Belfast) in favour of trendy left-wing agit prop in Dublin.

It was that anger that led to the split, with the Provos taking a more traditional Green stance than the Red stance of the Godless Commies in the Stickies, but actual anti-IRA graffiti appearing on walls in Belfast that would indeed be an urban myth.
From memory, the author concedes that there may have been some instances, undocumented, in one enclave (Ardoyne?) to support the Reverend's comments on TV . . . . . but as someone alse has suggested on here, 'long memories' feels like a better explanation.

I can't imagine any of the 200 hundred or so news photographers (one or two worth their salt, surely?) in Belfast at that time walking past such a memorable slogan without grabbing a even single frame before heading for the bar, can you?
 
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goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
My apologies for my tone, I was slightly exasperated at being continually accused of making up stuff that is in fact fully laid out in historical record that I didn't take the time to answer your question properly.

The Shorland was built in Belfast (its name was a combination of Shorts and Harland & Wolff, the two big industrial companies that built it in a joint venture), they were purchased by the RUC and were presumably supposed to be used on the border. Some idiot thought it would be a good idea to deploy them in a built up urban environment by barely trained policemen who thought they were the last line of Protestant Ulster's defence against a Popish uprising, to horrendous effect.

According to the Sunday Times Insight team the police in Hastings Street (I may be wrong) station thought they were coming under attack and fired off a few high velocity rounds, the peelers in the Shorland heard these and concluded they were under attack from the Divis flats (there may well have been shooting from the roof of the flats, see my post about Trooper McCabe above) and raked the front of the flats with 303 fire, blowing the head of a 9yo boy sleeping in his bed (see video posted by Kinch above).

Again I am sorry for my snarky tone, it just surprised me that people are still in any doubt about the veracity of what happened in Belfast on the nights of Aug 14/15 1969. Actually what happened in Belfast those nights was the sort of thing that happened in Belfast almost every other decade for the previous century (Orange mobs inflamed by Lambegs and the fear of uppity Fenians launch attacks on Catholic streets while the police either assist them or do little to restrain them) it's just that this time there were TV cameras to record it.
Thank you for taking the time to respond - it is appreciated...
 
From memory, the author concedes that there may have been some instances, undocumented, in one enclave (Ardoyne?) to support the Reverend's comments on TV . . . . . but as someone alse has suggested on here, 'long memories' feels like a better explanation.

I can't imagine any of the 200 hundred or so news photographers (one or two worth their salt, surely?) in Belfast at that time walking past such a memorable slogan without grabbing a even single frame before heading for the bar, can you?
There was a photo featuring such graffiti in one of David Barzilay’s ‘The British Army in Ulster’ (vol 1 I think).
 
There is absolutely no doubt that the Shorlands were deployed in Belfast in the August riots, the policemen who drove them and fired the Brownings gave evidence to Scarman, the RUC has never disputed that they were used.
I've no doubt that shorlands were used in Belfast. They were the standard vehicle for the RUC. I'm simply asking for a picture of one with a browning mounted on it. I would assume that there will be a picture that can be produced to prove your claim.

Simple as that!
 
I've no doubt that shorlands were used in Belfast. They were the standard vehicle for the RUC. I'm simply asking for a picture of one with a browning mounted on it. I would assume that there will be a picture that can be produced to prove your claim.

Simple as that!
I'm slightly perplexed as to how an internet photo a half-century down the line somehow trumps evidence given to a public inquiry in the immediate aftermath. Mebbe that's just me being a baby boomer, rather than a millenial or later.
 
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I'm slightly perplexed as to how an internet photo a half-century down the line somehow trumps evidence given to a public inquiry in the immediate aftermath. Mebbe that's just me being over baby boomer, rather than a millenial or later.
A browning is a hefty gun. I've used .30's mounted in a saracen. I'm well aware that .50's were used mounted on Land Rovers in places like Afghanistan etc but they are a specialised bit of kit.

I would have thought if they were used mounted on shorlands to indiscriminately fire on Divis for example, there would have been an abundance of photographs to prove the claim.
 
A browning is a hefty gun. I've used .30's mounted in a saracen. I'm well aware that .50's were used mounted on Land Rovers in places like Afghanistan etc but they are a specialised bit of kit.

I would have thought if they were used mounted on shorlands to indiscriminately fire on Divis for example, there would have been an abundance of photographs to prove the claim.
It is not a claim, it happened.
 
Great, now can we get back to Paratroopers committing murder?
 
Great, now can we get back to Paratroopers committing murder?
Pre judging things Dingerr? :):)

OK then Following Bloody Sunday and the Widgery Report it was confirmed that the Paras acted correctly under fire and all the dead and injured were guilty.

How was it then there wasn't a slew of Gallantry awards to 1 Para? The version confirmed at the time was that the Paras shot 24 armed people engaged in hostile acts at ranges under 100 m. In fact one of them shot at least six all on his own and at the time numerous other gunmen were shooting at the soldiers with a variety of weapons from the flats and elsewhere.

This had to be the largest of engagements dealt with by the Army up until then yet no MMs, DCMs or press articles after a visit to Buckingham Palace.
 
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Pre judging things Dingerr? :):)
Not at all, that’s what he’s been charged with and facing trial for.

I believe in the rule of law, unlike those on here who think British Soldiers should be above the law. Please let me know when that actually happens, I could do with turning over a few banks.
 
Not at all, that’s what he’s been charged with and facing trial for.

I believe in the rule of law, unlike those on here who think British Soldiers should be above the law. Please let me know when that actually happens, I could do with turning over a few banks.
We may need to discuss the practicalities of your making one over the pavement, I sense a fairly specialist approach will need to be crafted to various aspects of the task. Still, it'll be a nice project, eh?
 

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