Army Veterans Facing murder charges over Bloody Sunday within two weeks

The single biggest recruiting tools for the PIRA and what extended the troubles were internment and Bloody Sunday.

If a proper investigation and possible resultant prosecution(s) had been done in 1972..... a lot of people could have been alive today (civilians and soldiers).... and there would have been a lot less terrorists.
Completely agree.
 
Deserves an informative as well.
Personally I thought the paras were never appropriate for a peace keeping job. And that is not a criticism of the paras but who deployed them.

There was a line of thought a few years back that 1 PARA had established control in their TAOR in Belfast, while Londonderry was pretty much out of control in many parts with some Army units declaring areas to be 'no-go-areas'. Whether true or not, the line of thought was that 1 PARA was the unit that could re-establish control in Londonderry and get rid of the 'no-go-areas'.

The viewpoint was that 1 PARA went from an area they had established control to one where some Army units had completely lost it and applied their Belfast MO to Londonderry.
 
He must have a compensation claim in it
If you're referring to Soldier T with regards to compensation, I don't think he's fussed. He went onto much greater things and sadly was killed in 1982.

Edit: already noted by @Ex Observer . Soldier T was Ian McKay VC.
 
There was a line of thought a few years back that 1 PARA had established control in their TAOR in Belfast, while Londonderry was pretty much out of control in many parts with some Army units declaring areas to be 'no-go-areas'. Whether true or not, the line of thought was that 1 PARA was the unit that could re-establish control in Londonderry and get rid of the 'no-go-areas'.

The viewpoint was that 1 PARA went from an area they had established control to one where some Army units had completely lost it and applied their Belfast MO to Londonderry.
I will stand corrected but I am not sure 1 PARA had a TAOR in Belfast, rather they were used as a Bde Reserve. This meant that any unit could call on them to fix local problems such as barricades needing removing etc, locals needing attitude correction etc. They were usually deployed as a Coy or 2 Coys etc and their method was 'fast and aggressive'.

1 PARA were in Londonderry on Bloody Sunday to effect an arrest operation against the Derry Young Hooligans once they had seperated from the NICRA march. Lt Col Wilford was given specific orders by the Brigade Commander not to deploy the Bn down Rosville Street. He ignored these orders. Given the consequences of his disobedience he, along with two other officers should have been Court Martialled.

No go areas were widespread across the Province at the time.
 
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I will stand corrected but I am not sure 1 PARA had a TAOR in Belfast, rather they were used as a Bde Reserve. This meant that any unit could call on them to fix local problems such as barricades needing removing etc, locals needing attitude correction etc. They were usually deployed as a Coy or 2 Coys etc and their method was 'fast and aggressive'.

1 PARA were in Londonderry on Bloody Sunday to effect an arrest operation against the Derry Young Hooligans once they had seperated from the NICRA march. Lt Col Wilford was given specific orders by the Brigade Commander not to deploy the Bn down Rosville Street. He ignored these orders. Given the consequences of his disobedience he, along with two other officers should have been Court Martialled.

No go areas were widespread across the Province at the time.
They had been in Belfast since Sept 1970. They were Province Reserve Bn when they were deployed to Londonderry
 
There was a line of thought a few years back that 1 PARA had established control in their TAOR in Belfast, while Londonderry was pretty much out of control in many parts with some Army units declaring areas to be 'no-go-areas'. Whether true or not, the line of thought was that 1 PARA was the unit that could re-establish control in Londonderry and get rid of the 'no-go-areas'.

The viewpoint was that 1 PARA went from an area they had established control to one where some Army units had completely lost it and applied their Belfast MO to Londonderry.
That is the sort of thing I have heard as well. The paras would sort things out was the reasoning and in a sense they did re-establish control, no matter the cost.. One of the secrets of history, is when soldiers meet a group of civvies unwilling to give way, this is exactly the result you get...

Modern rules, everything from the past can be judged as rotten. But the modern track record has been a litany of failure to establish control. The only workable way now is dialogue and bribery and when that fails, we withdraw to the airport.
 
There was a line of thought a few years back that 1 PARA had established control in their TAOR in Belfast, while Londonderry was pretty much out of control in many parts with some Army units declaring areas to be 'no-go-areas'. Whether true or not, the line of thought was that 1 PARA was the unit that could re-establish control in Londonderry and get rid of the 'no-go-areas'.

The viewpoint was that 1 PARA went from an area they had established control to one where some Army units had completely lost it and applied their Belfast MO to Londonderry.
Thanks.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
There was a line of thought a few years back that 1 PARA had established control in their TAOR in Belfast, while Londonderry was pretty much out of control in many parts with some Army units declaring areas to be 'no-go-areas'. Whether true or not, the line of thought was that 1 PARA was the unit that could re-establish control in Londonderry and get rid of the 'no-go-areas'.

The viewpoint was that 1 PARA went from an area they had established control to one where some Army units had completely lost it and applied their Belfast MO to Londonderry.
The TAOR being Palace Barracks it would probably have included pacifying the Railway
 
They had been in Belfast since Sept 1970. They were Province Reserve Bn when they were deployed to Londonderry
Yes but I don't think they had their own TAOR and I do not think they had been used outside of 39 Bde until their deployment to Londonderry where they were employed as 8 Bde Reserve Bn for the NICRA march.

I think their full time up there was about two days and their time inside the Bogside beyond the barriers seems to have been about an hour.
 
That is the sort of thing I have heard as well. The paras would sort things out was the reasoning and in a sense they did re-establish control, no matter the cost..
Not true. According to Saville they were only used because they were the only available Bn in NI at the time and were in fact 39 Bde's Reserve Bn. 8 Bde's Reserve was 1 KORBR at Ballykinlar, but they had only just arrived in the Province and were not yet operational. You do have to wonder what might have happened had the march been scheduled for the following week when they were operational, not what did occur, that's for sure.

All this bullshit about the Para's "re-establishing control" is just that, bullshit. They had nothing to teach anyone about Riot-control, as they showed the previous week at McGilligan Strand, and certainly not the units on the ground in the city, who were more than capable of controlling riots of any size in a disciplined and legal manner.

All the Para's did on that day is pretty much what they did wherever and whenever they served in NI, ie. made things worse for everyone who came after them, in this case for the next 35 years.
 
Not true. According to Saville they were only used because they were the only available Bn in NI at the time and were in fact 39 Bde's Reserve Bn. 8 Bde's Reserve was 1 KORBR at Ballykinlar, but they had only just arrived in the Province and were not yet operational. You do have to wonder what might have happened had the march been scheduled for the following week when they were operational, not what did occur, that's for sure.

All this bullshit about the Para's "re-establishing control" is just that, bullshit. They had nothing to teach anyone about Riot-control, as they showed the previous week at McGilligan Strand, and certainly not the units on the ground in the city, who were more than capable of controlling riots of any size in a disciplined and legal manner.

All the Para's did on that day is pretty much what they did wherever and whenever they served in NI, ie. made things worse for everyone who came after them, in this case for the next 35 years.
I'm getting the feeling you don't like the Paras.
 
Not true. According to Saville they were only used because they were the only available Bn in NI at the time and were in fact 39 Bde's Reserve Bn. 8 Bde's Reserve was 1 KORBR at Ballykinlar, but they had only just arrived in the Province and were not yet operational. You do have to wonder what might have happened had the march been scheduled for the following week when they were operational, not what did occur, that's for sure.

All this bullshit about the Para's "re-establishing control" is just that, bullshit. They had nothing to teach anyone about Riot-control, as they showed the previous week at McGilligan Strand, and certainly not the units on the ground in the city, who were more than capable of controlling riots of any size in a disciplined and legal manner.

All the Para's did on that day is pretty much what they did wherever and whenever they served in NI, ie. made things worse for everyone who came after them, in this case for the next 35 years.
Depends whether the job of a soldier is to establish control through fear, or act as an extension of the police ?

The Paras did exactly what they are trained to do and whining about it only betrays your own weaknesses.
 
...Is to follow orders, as long as it doesn't contravene the OSA, standing orders, Geneva convention,, and to conduct himself in a disciplined and orderly fashion,... and if fired on, or if you know, or it looks like its about to happen, that you are about to be shot or bombed, brass the bastards up, Rapid!
Exactly; at no point has any of the soldiers been charged by the army itself. That means everything that happened WAS under orders... The instincts take over once rounds are flying and that is when tragedy takes over, from simply f**k up.

The legal minded on this site, jump on the rules and apply modern sensibilities, ignoring the fact that the commanding officer on the day said the soldiers did nothing wrong.. Either the whole establishment of the day should be charged, or nobody...
 

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