Army trying to recruit 7 year olds?

#1
Oh, and focusing on the good bits not the getting shot or blown up in the ads.

Who says so? The Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust.

Telegraph said:
The report - Informed Choice? Armed Forces and Recruitment Practice in the UK - accuses Army recruiters of failing to inform youngsters about the risks of a Forces career. It says the military "curtailed recruits' rights" to resign and recruiters targeted "the socially and economically vulnerable to enlist for negative reasons".

Many soldiers agreed to enlist "without fully understanding their legal obligations" and recruiting literature failed to mention that unless they left within six months of enlisting, they had no legal right to leave for four years.

...


The reports' author, David Gee, a peace and security analyst :twisted:
Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,,2236399,00.html

Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/07/narmy107.xml

Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3142491.ece

Scotsman: http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Army-accused-of--targeting.3644968.jp

Not up on www.jrf.org.uk, yet. Updated - it has its own website here: http://www.informedchoice.org.uk/

Just heard the author on Radio Scotland saying that 16 & 17 year olds, not 7 year olds, shouldn't be allowed to learn to kill people because they are not allowed to drink a pint of beer or watch an adult film. I think he needs a brief tutorial on current teenage behaviour and its strict adherence to the law. :?

And another edit: they have put up their own information site - http://www.beforeyousignup.info/
 
#2
ISTR that, at one time, the cooling off period was six weeks and an Army ploy was to entitle recruits to six weeks leave before recruit training. Or was that just a myth?
 
#3
I've got the report - 160 pages - which I will try to get through before work.

GOC(Indoors) just noted, having also heard him on the radio, that she was surprised that he didn't mention anything about the cadets.
 
#4
So what should the ads be then?

A young lad getting his leg blown off and then getting a dismal compensation payout as a result? Shit houses and accomadation? Getting told on a friday afternoon that your working the weekend!!

Quote from the Telegraph:

Col Bob Stewart, a former commanding officer, urged the Army to be truthful in its advertising.

"Some of the adverts do upset me because skiing or adventure training is not what the Army is about. It can be tough and unpleasant but it can also be tremendously rewarding," he said.

Now im not saying that adventure training and skiing is all the army is about but its not exactly lying is it! How many of us have done adventure training that we wouldnt dream of doing if we were a civvy? As for skiing, im not sure about other corps/regiments but mine are away every year without fail doing it!

As for this report saying that people are not informed enough about what their obligations are to the Army, when i joined we were sat down with the Major in the recruiting office when we signed on the dotted line and he explained just about everything in some depth, i should imagine that this is common practice?? The fact that most of us didnt care because we were looking forward to being big tough squaddies!

As for youngsters not knowing what they are getting themselves in for when they join the Army, have they never turned the TV on and seen the news about the Army and its current exploits overseas. You would have to be a blind, deaf nun not to know whats going on! who cares that the Army is trying to sugercoat it a little, all employers do, the Police, Fire Service, Nurse, Environmental Health Operative (binman)!!!!!

Rant over
 
#5
While it may be argued that Army advertising concentrates on the nicer aspects of Army life, and even that during the recruiting process, the prospective soldier may or may not be enlightened as to the true nature of discipline and combat, these features are disclosed during recruit training.

The recruit training routine gives an insight into the discipline that's required throughout service while lectures on Battlefield First Aid, CBRN etc, demonstrate the risks that can be encountered. This occurs within the first six months, when the recruit has the opportunity to back out.

About the only issue that probably isn't covered in this time is that of MQ housing stock and it's doubtful that a single soldier would be overly concerned with this anyway.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
My 18 year old put it rather succinctly.

'If they don't know after all these hundreds of years that soldiers can get killed, they don't deserve sympathy.'
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
Grownup_Rafbrat said:
My 18 year old put it rather succinctly.

'If they don't know after all these hundreds of years that soldiers can get killed, they don't deserve sympathy.'
There you go! Unless of course, Labour is discouraging the idea of teaching WW1 and WW2 in history classes, or that all wars should be scrubbed from the history books because it does not provide a good role model for humanity. Kids today of course, are finding out that they don't need to join the army to see their mates killed, they can see it on the crime-ridden, drug-fueled, out-of-control streets of Britain.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Biped said:
Grownup_Rafbrat said:
My 18 year old put it rather succinctly.

'If they don't know after all these hundreds of years that soldiers can get killed, they don't deserve sympathy.'
There you go! Unless of course, Labour is discouraging the idea of teaching WW1 and WW2 in history classes, or that all wars should be scrubbed from the history books because it does not provide a good role model for humanity. Kids today of course, are finding out that they don't need to join the army to see their mates killed, they can see it on the crime-ridden, drug-fueled, out-of-control streets of Britain.
Well that's a bit excessive! Most of the England is not as you describe. But there are a couple of areas of Chester where we don't go at night, and one where we don't go in the daytime either. :)

Reverting to topic, my lad has a few mates who are army cadets and is also aware that they are subject to discipline 'even stricter than yours, Ma'.

I suspect either that the report is by a lot of anti-military do-gooders, who haven't actually spoken to anyone in the 16-18 age group before writing it, or that the press have picked up on a small comment and blown it out of all proportion. Both hard to believe, I know ..
 
#9
Isn't that what Ads are all about to encourage you to participate in a product.

Where is the MacDonalds Ad that shows fat kids struggling to breathe or the brandy ad that shows the drunk spewing under the Embankment bridge.

Do you think our armouries should be putting stickers on munitions with "Caution - May Cause Death" on them!?
 
#10
Grownup_Rafbrat said:
I suspect either that the report is by a lot of anti-military do-gooders, who haven't actually spoken to anyone in the 16-18 age group before writing it, or that the press have picked up on a small comment and blown it out of all proportion. Both hard to believe, I know ..
I am at page 73 and it is definitely the former (except it is 1 anti-military do-gooder, with sponsorship from a Quaker charity), not the latter. A summary will be posted later.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
BigRed said:
Isn't that what Ads are all about to encourage you to participate in a product.

Where is the MacDonalds Ad that shows fat kids struggling to breathe or the brandy ad that shows the drunk spewing under the Embankment bridge.

Do you think our armouries should be putting stickers on munitions with "Caution - May Cause Death" on them!?
Great idea for the 'adverse ads'. Could be a whole new thread on its own.

How about one for sofas that fall apart after two years, just as you're in the middle of paying for the 'free credit' deal?
 
#12
One has to get this in some perspective, the Rowntree Trust was set up to further the views and objectives of a Quaker Pacifist, so if a report by them on Army recruiting did not come up with comments like this it would be very surprising.

On RR some one pointed out that the construction industry has more deaths in a year than the sevices and perhaps there should be a health warning on 'Bob the Builder' programmes as they glamourise the construction industry.
 
#13
I was disappointed in the performance of the Admiral that was brought onto the Today programme to debate with the Report's author.

The Admiral's responses were very weak, he failed to make any valid points, presenting Mr Gee with an open goal.
 
#14
The Rowntree trust are of course a left wing group with strong leanings to pacifism, so we shouldn't be surprised by their report.

Many in the current government will agree with the report - stand by for Labour MPs to cite report as further reason for not granting an above inflation pay-rise. If recruiting campaigns are constrained and recruiting falls - what a bonus, less wages to pay!
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
I can see a theme developing here.

The Labour Party Manifesto: Should read "Once you vote us into power we will screw the country, properly, spend all your money, borrow loads more, and make YOU pay it back etc, etc, etc."
 
#16
Anyone who is contemplating joining the army and not bothering to look into it beyond what is said to them by the recruiter needs to have a serious word with themselves.

As pointed out before no employer is going to tell a potential employee the down sides of the job, would most of us be doing the jobs we are currently doing if this was the case? I probably wouldn't.

The fact that soldiers carry guns should be a bit of a give away that it is a dangerous job and you may be required to put yourself in harms way. After all its the Army, you may be going to war not a tickling competition.

As some one once said to me "if you don't like the idea of getting wet don't become a plumber, if you don't like the idea of getting shot at don't become a soldier".
 
#17
Getting sent to sh1tholes and getting shot at is hardly a hidden part of the job, you'd have to be mince not to realise it.

I think this report is insulting the intelligence of Britains youth.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
The report I just heard, seems to be implying that taking displays to county shows, steam fairs, etc., isn't telling the whole story, and could be targetting 7 year olds. That doesn't make sense; who takes a job on the strength of a PR display? And what is the purpose of PR?

All those children who climb all over fire engines on school visits don't end up as firefighters, and all the people who eat cake in WI Tea Tents don't end up joining the WI.

Utter nonsense. Harummpphhh.
 
#19
maxi_77 said:
One has to get this in some perspective, the Rowntree Trust was set up to further the views and objectives of a Quaker Pacifist, so if a report by them on Army recruiting did not come up with comments like this it would be very surprising.

On RR some one pointed out that the construction industry has more deaths in a year than the sevices and perhaps there should be a health warning on 'Bob the Builder' programmes as they glamourise the construction industry.
If these "surveys" were conducted by independent bodies without an agenda, they might have more credibility; clearly such organisations have realised that all they need to do to get some free PR is to commission such a survey(the outcome of which is beyond doubt pre-determined), then phone the BBC and Hey Presto! ....a tame interview in which messrs Humphrys and Stourton put their Rottweiler tendencies on hold while giving the "surveys" the status of an important news item, despite their subjectivity.
 
#20
To be honest this "If you join the army you may get slotted" is bit effing daft - the whole danger thing has been with us for years - there has never been a year go by where by the British Army has not been involved in the odd conflict or two.
You've got to think back to when you were 18 - "young dumb & full of ..."
You were seeming invicible until the CSM got his hands on you ....
But as previous comments have said just look at your history - WWI 1st July 1916 Battle of Somme - WWII D-Day Omagh Beach (as highlighted last night on Timewatch) - death is always around us.
As to age thing - Army has to be careful as in the old days you had to 18 to go to Ulster - but you could fight in the 1st Gulf War at 17.
 

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