Army to get £1bn Warrior upgrade

#2
FRES finally arrives?
 
#3
I see the coalition have adopted the Brownian tactic of announcing "spending olds" and hoping that people think it is a new commitment.

Or did I miss this being briefly cancelled so it could be re-announced.

And, no. Nothing to do with FRES.
 
#4
Read the article: good to see that Warrior, GKN Sankey/Defence winning the production contract in 1980, will according to...

Prime Minister David Cameron and Defence Secretary Philip Hammond… extend the service life of the vehicles through to 2040 and beyond.

Chief of General Staff General Sir Peter Wall said that Warrior... will continue to be at the heart of our combat capability for at least another 25 years with state-of-the-art firepower and electronics. So that would make it 2035 then

Meanwhile, next paragraph
Lockheed Martin UK vice-president Alan McCormick said: "We are delighted that the MoD has selected us to lead this critical upgrade effort designed to maximise the investment made in Warrior vehicles to extend their lives by an additional 20 years.
So making it 2030.

So then, clear as mud.

Final point, is McCormick British or yank? Can we specify Brit only for our industry?
 
#5
What is going to tow them into action though?
 
#6
#7
Another point.
MODS
Could the thread be merged with Major General Nick Carter -future of the British Army?
 
#10
ah, buy cheap, buy twice.
we are good at this, SA80, now Warrior. Rather than having a decent turret and weapon system from the start, we instead have a non-stabilised main armament, namely the archaic Rarden cannon, kidding ourselves that it is as good as a Bradley, now chucking more money at it to actually achieve this.
Rack catch plunger release catch cam!
 
#11
I fully expect after this upgrade program has finished we will be left with the equivalent of an MFO trolley with a GPMG strapped to it.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#12
I fully expect after this upgrade program has finished we will be left with the equivalent of an MFO trolley with a GPMG strapped to it.
No, what we've just committed to is a modern version of the FV430 series problem. A piece of kit designed for the 1980's battlefield, introduced just as Defence in Europe is changing, deploying on ops to wars in an environment it was not really designed for and then upgraded and expected to be modern for decades with no money earmarked from the Defence budget for adapting it (if needed) to a required, safe, effective working solution.
 
#14
No, what we've just committed to is a modern version of the FV430 series problem. A piece of kit designed for the 1980's battlefield, introduced just as Defence in Europe is changing, deploying on ops to wars in an environment it was not really designed for and then upgraded and expected to be modern for decades with no money earmarked from the Defence budget for adapting it (if needed) to a required, safe, effective working solution.

What's that you say? We won't have massed hordes of wuperts in warriors cutting a dash around the North German Plain going toe to toe with Ivans hordes of BMP's!
 
#15
The article is a little vague, it just says "hundreds of vehicles". How many do we have going through this upgrade? It all seems a tad expensive......
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#16
Look a bit deeper - at a recent venture with Lockheed Martin, this time for FRES. It was, according to GDUK "British to its bootstraps". Sadly, this is utter bollocks. We CANNOT, under EU law, buy stuff in the UK market alone unless there is a valid reason to do so. Many nations (think Frogs, etc) say that this extends to AFVs, under the clause that allows us to buy defence-related materiel in the Home market (it is recognised no-one is going to sell you a nuclear warhead, or a nuclear submarine). We don't, because (or possibly as a result of this attitude?) our AFV industry is rubbish. We therefore end up buying from abroad.

Good aticles on this at:British to its Bootstraps | Think Defence
and: FRES – British to its Bootstraps Part 2 | Think Defence


What was the last really really good British AFV? by that, I mean one that sold well abroad, without bribes.
Centurion? Possibly CVR(T)? Certainly nothing since.

We've a choice. Employ people in the UK to make kit that's not very good (Chieftain?) or buy from abroad. If we buy from abroad we can spend the money saved on more Soldiers (alright, this is unlikely...), or we spend it in UK industry on engineers/fabricators who make AFVs? That's the choice.
 
#17
"This shows the concrete benefits of the fundamental changes we have introduced to modernise our Armed Forces and to bring the future defence budget back to balance", David Cameron said.


Errrr no what it actually shows it that we can't (and never could have) afford FRES so WR CSP will just have to do instead. Stand by for more shocking revelations on just have totally fcuked the Equipment Programme really is in the near future. :|
 
#18
Does anyone know what exactly this upgrade entails? Is this what used to be known as "Warrior Lethality Improvement Programme" (WLIP)? Meant to include new, upgradeable cannon (min 35mm), which was required to be transferrable to FRES replacement (bit pie in the sky that one). 2 man turret. Approx 450 vehicles.
 
#19
Approx 450 vehicles.
Have a look at the Major General Nick Carter - future of the British Army. He is saying 2 heavy and 2 light brigades. I do not understand, but then I am think, why you would need 450 Warriors upgraded. How many Warriors outfit a Bn? How many in a Brigade?

Is anyone actually talking to anyone else in the MOD?
 
#20
Warrior is a brilliant vehicle. Fast, reliable, heavily armoured, well armed, easy to deploy in different variants. I've no idea how it stacks up against other IFV's, but it was the ideal vehicle for patrolling (most of) Basra.

Some time around 2005/2006, we were told our warriors were all being upgraded to have a completely new turret with all sorts of clever optics. We referred to it as 'warrior 2', though I've no idea if that name was officially mentioned.

Is this that upgrade, or something entirely different?
 

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