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Army Recruiting - Let’s all abuse Capita

No they win the contract by bidding at a price that has a gross profit margin of 1-2%. That’s all the profit there is in the contract unless they cut corners or work the contact. Why would anyone invest at 1-2% margin?

They repair on the cheap because that is what they are being paid to do. Why would they invest in a better repair if they’re not going to be the contractor when it breaks next?

And they employ buffoons because that’s all the contract affords. And TUPE means that those buffoons have a job for life.

Yet they are great for the MOD?
 
Yet they are great for the MOD?
So who else is going to do it? The Army hasn’t self-performed facilities management since the 1960s. The Civil Service in the guise of PSA was desperately inefficient and expensive.

What gets me in all of this is that there are good contractors out there but they won’t bid for contracts at 1-2% margins. And some of the contractors used by the MoD do great work for private sector clients (Sodexo being one).

In the context of the recruiting partnership, who ripped off who? Who didn’t supply the IT that they contracted to supply and then expected the contractor to provide it gratis?
 
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So who else is going to do it? The Army hasn’t self-performed facilities management since the 1960s. The Civil Service in the guise of PSA was desperately inefficient and expensive.

What gets me in all of this is that there are good contractors out there but they won’t bid for contracts at 1-2% margins. And some of the contractors used by the MoD do great work for private sector clients (Sodexo being one).

In the context of the recruiting partnership, who ripped off who? Who didn’t supply the IT that they contracted to supply and then expected the contractor to provide it gratis?

Who knows who else will do it? Can I now confirm you dont think these billion companies are that great for the MOD?
 
Gents,

Just out of interest do Capita have a track record in running recruiting operations?

Thanks
Amongst other outsourcing, Capita does records management for the NHS. Patients’ records can now take up to 6 months to be passed between GP surgeries (and to recruiters for those with medical queries and deferments).
 
Amongst other outsourcing, Capita does records management for the NHS. Patients’ records can now take up to 6 months to be passed between GP surgeries (and to recruiters for those with medical queries and deferments).
At which point the candidate has decided against (or even forgotten they had applied for) a full or part-time role in HM Forces...
 
What do you mean by “great”? It’s obvious we can’t do without them, there is no other option.

We used to do without some of them.
Then someone claimed they can do the same (or better) job for cheaper, yet the end user seems to lose out while more money is being spent.
 
We used to do without some of them.
Then someone claimed they can do the same (or better) job for cheaper, yet the end user seems to lose out while more money is being spent.
The treasury said “you need to cut costs”. As soon as you’ve removed the MOD person from the job you’ve made a massive long term saving on someone, in my Corps case, who is probably on the golf course by 1400 and has nil business acumen what so ever, let alone able to graft a decent business case. My current QM gets it, pushes information out, holds DIO to account etc, but I’ve never seen that before, lots of noise maybe but nil effect.
 
Both @bobthebuilder & @stacker1 are correct.

DIO contracts are very badly written, often including meaningless layers of admin and paperwork, even more often not properly describing what is needed by the end user.

Equally, the major outsourcing companies cut their margins to the bone in order to get the contract in a competitive tendering situation enforced by DIO. The only way to make any sensible profit is then to price gouge and to pick on any holes in the contract to make extra money on variations.

We can all cite cases where DIO contracts have had ridiculous holes in facilities management contracts.

Example:
Recent proposal to do work for DIO took almost £500 worth of time to generate the quote for a £6,000 job. DIO sit on the proposal for 9 months, during which costs (travel, accommodation etc) have gone up by nearly 5% (over end of FY) plus DIO have now changed the scope of the job requiring another £300 worth of time to modify the proposal and re-cost the job.

I'm now in the position where costs are spiralling due to DIO changing the scope of work and we're about to go across another year end (18/19) where costs will go up again (annual cost increases).

My £6,000 job is now nearly £9,000 due to mission creep from DIO plus additional time in re-writing the proposal plus annual cost increases.

The mission creep is due to a certain AE deciding that he wants updated design data to cover equipment that has been in place since 1990!
I mentioned in another thread a still-serving friend in quarters near London. There was some loose flashing on a chimney which could have been resolved by a quick repointing job. He reported the problem in August. The first response from AMEY was to contract in a consultant to undertake a full building survey and propose a scheme of repair. Two months passed and the leak worsened and the ceiling in the bedroom need to be replaced. And still the leak hadn’t been repaired. He followed the complaints procedure which resulted in additional consultants being contracted in; it transpired that the call centre staff have no idea what flashing is, what pointing is...and DIO then contacted his two-up to warn him off from complaining. He’s now launched a Service Complaint against the Air Cdre administrator who is Director of Housing within DIO. A bit too cosy with the contractors?

I shudder to think how much this simple repair has cost because of a lack of intelligent customers and properly trained call centre staff.
 
I mentioned in another thread a still-serving friend in quarters near London. There was some loose flashing on a chimney which could have been resolved by a quick repointing job. He reported the problem in August. The first response from AMEY was to contract in a consultant to undertake a full building survey and propose a scheme of repair. Two months passed and the leak worsened and the ceiling in the bedroom need to be replaced. And still the leak hadn’t been repaired. He followed the complaints procedure which resulted in additional consultants being contracted in; it transpired that the call centre staff have no idea what flashing is, what pointing is...and DIO then contacted his two-up to warn him off from complaining. He’s not now launched a Service Complaint against the Air Cdre administrator who Director of Housing within DIO. A bit too cosy with the contractors?
We see that on the Comms side of things a lot, I genuinely can’t see a way around it though unless we employ FYB to manage transparency for us.
 
Who knows who else will do it? Can I now confirm you dont think these billion companies are that great for the MOD?
No. Some of them are. KBR being a good example, without whom Telic and Herrick would simply not have been supportable. The Hokdfast RSME PPP. C-Vehicle PFI. The first Landmark. Babcock dockyards. There are any number of defence contracts that have delivered capability better than the in-house solution ever did.

And on thread, the Army’s recruiting would be further up shit creek without a paddle without Capita, without whom there still would be no working IT solution.
 
I mentioned in another thread a still-serving friend in quarters near London. There was some loose flashing on a chimney which could have been resolved by a quick repointing job. He reported the problem in August. The first response from AMEY was to contract in a consultant to undertake a full building survey and propose a scheme of repair. Two months passed and the leak worsened and the ceiling in the bedroom need to be replaced. And still the leak hadn’t been repaired. He followed the complaints procedure which resulted in additional consultants being contracted in; it transpired that the call centre staff have no idea what flashing is, what pointing is...and DIO then contacted his two-up to warn him off from complaining. He’s now launched a Service Complaint against the Air Cdre administrator who is Director of Housing within DIO. A bit too cosy with the contractors?

I shudder to think how much this simple repair has cost because of a lack of intelligent customers and properly trained call centre staff.
The sort of simple repair that rental agents manage for landlords every day. Maybe there’s a case for managing the housing estate on a much more distributed basis. No big contracts, lots of small ones. But then that flies in the face of Treasury guidance on minimising contract interfaces. It would need a big procurement team to manage it all and pay the bills.

At the heart of this is public procurement rules.
 
No. Some of them are. KBR being a good example, without whom Telic and Herrick would simply not have been supportable. The Hokdfast RSME PPP. C-Vehicle PFI. The first Landmark. Babcock dockyards. There are any number of defence contracts that have delivered capability better than the in-house solution ever did.

And on thread, the Army’s recruiting would be further up shit creek without a paddle without Capita, without whom there still would be no working IT solution.
Your proberly right, but and a big but, it still doesn't rectify the problem, with the time scale of getting potential recruits into the selection process. 18 month waiting is just too long!
The lads and lasses just loose heart and go in a different direction. I for one don't blame them.
The recruitment process needs to have a major shake up. It's quite obvious that the use of this large and elongated process does not work. If Capita had any sense/morals they'd get out.!
 
No. Some of them are. KBR being a good example, without whom Telic and Herrick would simply not have been supportable. The Hokdfast RSME PPP. C-Vehicle PFI. The first Landmark. Babcock dockyards. There are any number of defence contracts that have delivered capability better than the in-house solution ever did.

And on thread, the Army’s recruiting would be further up shit creek without a paddle without Capita, without whom there still would be no working IT solution.
I think this indicates that the Army is more than happy to invest the time and effort to manage out sourced suppliers on contracts of its choosing, but when it comes to matters which have a direct effect on the morale, welfare and retention of soldiers they don't really give a damn.
 

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