Army officer shortfall as wars in Iraq and Afgan take toll

#1
Army suffering from officer shortfall as wars in Iraq and Afghanistan take toll
The British Army is facing a shortfall in officer numbers as operations in Iraq and Afghanistan take their toll on recruitment.

By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
Last Updated: 9:38PM BST 18 Aug 2008

The head of the Army's officer training says politicians need to "sell" the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq better Photo: CHRISTOPHER PLEDGER
For the past three years the military academy at Sandhurst has been unable to attract enough recruits and has been short by about 20 out of the 250 cadets needed to keep up numbers each term, The Daily Telegraph has learned.
More on the link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan-take-toll.html
 
#2
as long as they're losing people like Col Tootal and Brig Butler... I couldn't give a flying fcuk who they recruited... you can't replace that sort of experience in this day and age... if if you're born with a silver spoon up your arrse and have 2 oxford degrees.....

rant off.
 
#4
damned_colonial said:
The problem is far deeper than a shortfall in recruiting...retention amongst offrs for the last year or so has been the real drama and seems to be getting worse.
Don't worry- Labour has a plan: a nice big recession that'll make the job market in civvy strasse a lot tighter. :x
 
#5
Likely politician / bureaucrat short term solution? Commission more LEs, push them into more J3 jobs and deny there's a shortage of officers. Haemorrhage? What haemorrhage? :cry:
 
#7
I have seen too many Officers pack it in over the past year or so, potential solution....I agree with PoisonDwarf, commission more Warrant Officers who meet the requirements, the Army should wake up to the fact that they are sending experienced men and women out into civi street at the age of 40, far too early, I have recently started my resettlement and civi company's cannot believe we send people packing at such a young age. Officers are not the be all and end all of the British Army, SNCO's have most of the experience and opinions.....listen to them now and again!
 
#8
The basic issue is that the upper and middle classes are simply far more cowardly than the working classes.

Commission from those who are winning bravery awards.

Leadership is not obtained in the lecture theatre but on the battlefield.
 
#9
Or lower the rank structure for LE comissioning?
 
#10
The_Cad said:
The basic issue is that the upper and middle classes are simply far more cowardly than the working classes.

Commission from those who are winning bravery awards.

Leadership is not obtained in the lecture theatre but on the battlefield.
Dont talk shite, individuals throughout the ranks are sacrificing their lives and gaining well deserved awards in all theatres of operation, you have missed the point, or have had too much to drink, bravery is bravery and may not necessarily mean you are a good leader because you are prepared to put your life on the line. Most soldiers regardless of rank will do their duty whatever the cost or their classification with society.
 
#11
methilman said:
The_Cad said:
The basic issue is that the upper and middle classes are simply far more cowardly than the working classes.

Commission from those who are winning bravery awards.

Leadership is not obtained in the lecture theatre but on the battlefield.
Dont talk shite, individuals throughout the ranks are sacrificing their lives and gaining well deserved awards in all theatres of operation, you have missed the point, or have had too much to drink, bravery is bravery and may not necessarily mean you are a good leader because you are prepared to put your life on the line. Most soldiers regardless of rank will do their duty whatever the cost or their classification with society.
Really? Well I can only speak from my own experience.

Mind you, statistically it seems that casualty rates do not match the OR / Officer ratio on Ops.

In fact since Op Corporate ratio wise, it would appear that the casualty rates amongst the junior leadership far exceed those amongst the more expensively educated.

I do not denigrate those excellent officers who have led from the front on Ops and died, rather than those who lead from behind and watch better men die.

The simple truth is the OR's are leaving because they can get more pay on the private circuit rather than risk their lives for an ungrateful MOD.

The officer recruitment and retention issue is down to lack of moral fibre.
 
#12
tommyhutch said:
Maybe we should give a civvie company £3 million to tell us how to recruit more gay and ethnic officers.
The recruiting budget spends far more than that mate... when it comes to paying for armoured vehicles or helicopters however....
 
#13
The_Cad said:
methilman said:
The_Cad said:
The basic issue is that the upper and middle classes are simply far more cowardly than the working classes.

Commission from those who are winning bravery awards.

Leadership is not obtained in the lecture theatre but on the battlefield.
Dont talk shite, individuals throughout the ranks are sacrificing their lives and gaining well deserved awards in all theatres of operation, you have missed the point, or have had too much to drink, bravery is bravery and may not necessarily mean you are a good leader because you are prepared to put your life on the line. Most soldiers regardless of rank will do their duty whatever the cost or their classification with society.
Really? Well I can only speak from my own experience.

I have rarely read anything that sounds less like it comes from a soldier.

Mind you, statistically it seems that casualty rates do not match the OR / Officer ratio on Ops.

In fact since Op Corporate ratio wise, it would appear that the casualty rates amongst the junior leadership far exceed those amongst the more expensively educated.

I would ask you to show your workings as that sounds utterly made up to me, however the "ORs vs Officers KIA competition" that you're using to make some sort of wierd anarchist class war point is one of the sicker things I have heard of.

I do not denigrate those excellent officers who have led from the front on Ops and died, rather than those who lead from behind and watch better men die.

WTF? Have you ever been on an operation? Officers leading from behind and watching better men die? Where did you get that from?

The simple truth is the OR's are leaving because they can get more pay on the private circuit rather than risk their lives for an ungrateful MOD.

The officer recruitment and retention issue is down to lack of moral fibre.

You sound like a complete Trotsykist WALTER , I'm afraid.
 
#15
A better, and more efficicient system to get lads from the Ranks to the DE-LE side of it would help. Nothing wrong with the LE route, but the DE side of it has aways been hard and full of hoops.
 
#17
Do we actually need that many DE officers nowdays? Infantry and other frontline units probably do need them as young fit leaders, But the corps? I don't think so. Many new DE officers seem to get led around by a WO for their first 3 years, far simpiler to offer that WO his commission, less cost as well. There might be some problems with LE captains taken over Lt positions but I'm sure it could be sorted.
 
#18
The_Cad said:
methilman said:
The_Cad said:
The basic issue is that the upper and middle classes are simply far more cowardly than the working classes.

Commission from those who are winning bravery awards.

Leadership is not obtained in the lecture theatre but on the battlefield.
Dont talk shite, individuals throughout the ranks are sacrificing their lives and gaining well deserved awards in all theatres of operation, you have missed the point, or have had too much to drink, bravery is bravery and may not necessarily mean you are a good leader because you are prepared to put your life on the line. Most soldiers regardless of rank will do their duty whatever the cost or their classification with society.
Really? Well I can only speak from my own experience.

Mind you, statistically it seems that casualty rates do not match the OR / Officer ratio on Ops.

In fact since Op Corporate ratio wise, it would appear that the casualty rates amongst the junior leadership far exceed those amongst the more expensively educated.

I do not denigrate those excellent officers who have led from the front on Ops and died, rather than those who lead from behind and watch better men die.

The simple truth is the OR's are leaving because they can get more pay on the private circuit rather than risk their lives for an ungrateful MOD.

The officer recruitment and retention issue is down to lack of moral fibre.
I may have missed something here, but the job of an officer is not to heroically get killed by being too far forward.

"Casualty rates amongst the junior leadership far exceed those amongst the more expensively educated"
Of course they do; in each platoon the ratio of JNCOs to officers is 6:1, of course the casualties amongst JNCOs will be higher. And what does education have to do with anything?

Is there some reason for this bile against officers?
 
#20
If you start putting WOs into G3 jobs then you are preventing a DE gaining that experience as part of his career progression, which could potentially be along the lines of:

SO3 G3 O&D - COS - Bde Comd (with staff apointments, RD command appointments and staff college thrown in as well)

LEs do not have the time available to gain the experience required to follow this progression.

Leading a section has nothing to do with leading a brigade - and anybody who thinks that the position of the commander should always be at the front has clearly gained their understanding of leadership and doctrine from Victor and Commando magazines.
 

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