Army Numbers Fall Again

I wouldn't care either.
Deep down it upsets you knowing junior blokes in your capbadge have spent more time on the ground in Afghan than you have on phys in your entire career.
 

Toppet

Old-Salt
Deep down it upsets you knowing junior blokes in your capbadge have spent more time on the ground in Afghan than you have on phys in your entire career.
Yeah, but he has spent more time with a NAAFI pie in his hand than the Ulster Defence Regiment spent in Northern Ireland, so there is that.
 

WhiskeyTango

Old-Salt
Leadership for me personally was the seniors who were getting amongst the blokes struggling on the CFT. The seniors who were consistently on battle camps, patrols competition teams, inter-sqn competitions, Cambrian patrol teams etc etc. I didn’t think much of the fat biffs who hid behind their terminal/app 9 because they “had too much to do”.

I’ve been watching your replies in this thread with interest but I think we have fundamentally different views on what makes a good leader in the army. It isn’t good enough to just be a capable tradesman and as you’re R SIGNALS I’m sure you’ve been belt-fed “Soldier first” as much as I have. If you want the respect of the bods below you, you have to do more than them.

Not meaning to get involved in the argument, but I thought I'd reply to the top section.

Couple of years ago on the Cambrian patrol I bumped into an LE Captain who was leading the team around and got them a silver.

I believe he did his first one before the youngest lads in the Bn were born!
 
Said firmly with tongue in cheek, however, clearly touched a nerve.
Biffs get very touchy when people point out how shit they are.
 
Biffs get very touchy when people point out how shit they are.
Only going to get worse I’m afraid. Downgraded bods coming off promotion boards when I’m fairly sure this wasn’t the case only 2-3 years ago. If it was then it certainly wasn’t happening at my unit. I even hear whispers of the re-introduction of “biff CLM” for these keyboard warriors who can do literally everything required off their rank...except put some fcuking kit on and get amongst it. I hope it’s just a duty rumour.
 
Pretty poor challenging of the app 9 then. The only way a soldier should be exempt the test but are able to play sport Is because they are building back up to fitness to pass it.
I think everyone posting here bar one agrees that's how it should work.

Unfortunately the one, who's had a "full career", etc, which evidently includes more than the last twenty years of it excused PFAs, CFTs, etc, shows beyond too much doubt that that isn't how it does work.
Simply trying to establish context.
I think the context's unavoidable.
 
Only going to get worse I’m afraid. Downgraded bods coming off promotion boards when I’m fairly sure this wasn’t the case only 2-3 years ago. If it was then it certainly wasn’t happening at my unit. I even hear whispers of the re-introduction of “biff CLM” for these keyboard warriors who can do literally everything required off their rank...except put some fcuking kit on and get amongst it. I hope it’s just a duty rumour.
Yesss .....

..... so we've got an Army where 20% are excused doing their job and have to be carried ..... and where, for two or three decades, a third of those going through RMAS are "risk passes" at AOSB who are increasingly guaranteed a commission regardless of their performance at RMAS ..... and where for the last three years, 25% of those getting commissioned weren't even "risk passes" but actually failed AOSB .....

..... what could possibly go wrong?
 
Only going to get worse I’m afraid. Downgraded bods coming off promotion boards when I’m fairly sure this wasn’t the case only 2-3 years ago. If it was then it certainly wasn’t happening at my unit. I even hear whispers of the re-introduction of “biff CLM” for these keyboard warriors who can do literally everything required off their rank...except put some fcuking kit on and get amongst it. I hope it’s just a duty rumour.
Promotion boards are available for all. You can't have a situation where someone hides an injury in order to be boarded, the end result is likely to be a very costly severely injured soldier. IIRC the downgraded CLMs finished around 2005, prior to that you sat a med board. Now you have 12 months to pass CLM with a reversion inn rank if unsuccessful. The promotion board element hasn't changed. By "put some fcuking kit on and get amongst it" do you mean do your trade?
 
I think everyone posting here bar one agrees that's how it should work.
Unfortunately the one, who's had a "full career", etc, which evidently includes more than the last twenty years of it excused PFAs, CFTs, etc, shows beyond too much doubt that that isn't how it does work.
I think the context's unavoidable.
If you don't pass CLM now you are reverted in rank. We've been reverting people since 2010. So that is how promotion has been working since 2010.
 
If you don't pass CLM now you are reverted in rank. We've been reverting people since 2010. So that is how promotion has been working since 2010.
Luckily for biffs quite a few CLMs no longer have a fitness element.
 
They’ve also reduced the field element without understanding the impact of doing so.
The impact is that biffs across the Army are doing backflips in celebration.
 
I think just possibly there’s more to it than that.
You mean the Army can't be bothered getting people fit so make tests/courses easier. After all those who can be bothered to maintain a basic level of fitness can do all the shit tasks instead
 
Well it’s certainly one of the impacts when individuals who couldn’t pass the old 5-week JCLM can now miraculously pass the 2-weeker with all the organised battle PT removed.
Looking a bit deeper, we’ve removed a pass/fail assessment point. Wether or not it relates to phys/mil skills or trade is irrelevant, the ability to thin weaker individuals out has been removed. I suppose the plus side is that we aren’t clogging up the bottoms of the pyramid.
 
Looking a bit deeper, we’ve removed a pass/fail assessment point. Wether or not it relates to phys/mil skills or trade is irrelevant, the ability to thin weaker individuals out has been removed. I suppose the plus side is that we aren’t clogging up the bottoms of the pyramid.
I don’t know if I necessarily agree with “not clogging up the bottoms of the pyramid” being a plus. The people that I personally know of who couldn’t pass (or wouldn’t attempt - due to a phantom injury) the 5 week JCLM, and who have subsequently passed the new look course, in my opinion aren’t fit to promote and shouldn’t have done. Some people just aren’t good enough sometimes, and forcing them upwards through a combination of large promotion boards (due to manning problems) and easy CLMs is going to bite us badly in a few years when these people are SNCO / YofS / YofS(EW)/ FofS* and are completely out of their depth.

*I do note that the supervisory roles require another selection but with manning trending downwards, individuals will still be pushed through where required (I believe).
 
.. so we've got an Army where 20% are excused doing their job and have to be carried ..... and where, for two or three decades, a third of those going through RMAS are "risk passes" at AOSB who are increasingly guaranteed a commission regardless of their performance at RMAS ..... and where for the last three years, 25% of those getting commissioned weren't even "risk passes" but actually failed AOSB .....

..... what could possibly go wrong?
I missed out an Army that's lowered the fitness standard by 30% - so although the tests, coincidentally of course, aren't directly comparable the net result is unavoidable. If you couldn't manage a PFA / BFT / etc, whatever, in 10.30 then no problem ..... now you only have to do the equivalent of 13.30.

What could possibly go wrong?
 

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