Army Numbers Fall Again

The army could, of course, discharge some on medical grounds.
Or, (and I know this will come across as a radical idea) it can focus on getting biffs better.
Not only does this mean there will be less biffs, but it means more facilities for the geniune cases to get better.
My first unit was 16 regt Bicester which was a static third line depot. We didn't have a 20% biff rate at junior level. (can't recall the seniors/officers cos the idle cnuts didn't turn up for PT regardless if they were fit or not)
 
Yes. Downgraded by the Army’s doctors against medical standards set by the Army. With a lower threshold both in terms of medical case and level of decision making since John served.

The question I asked and which remains unanswered is what is a reasonable, expected level of downgrading in a unit? As I said, I’ve no idea whether it’s 5%, 20% or more. It’s certainly not zero. And it’s certainly not an arbitrary target that can be decided on the basis of opinion.

Follow the data. If current training and employment practices create 20% downgraded against current medical standards, then that’s what you have to expect unless you change one of the variables.
You seem to be under the impression that the Army are making people downgraded due to the job
A sizable amount of biffs are becoming staying on the biff because it's an easy option. A 8 to 5 job, no guard, no exercises, no PT, no "fun" competition, still get promoted, still play sport etc. What's not to like?
When I was at 4 regt the cockwombles of a CO and RSM wasn't happy with the fitness rates in the regiment. So we (the fit) had to parade at 0730 (0630 if it was swimming) every morning 5 times a week. The biffs had to parade at 1400 everyday except Friday because it was early knock off.
Surprisingly enough the biff rate went up.
 
It causes officers numerous issues when blokes can't do the thing they are trained to do because they pull a sicky. Manning is the biggest thorn in the side of planning and the main cause for late nights and head scratching. Trying to figure out how to fulfil a task without ******* another bloke over gets boring quickly.

Anyway, your anti-everyone but stacker1 rhetoric is getting boring. If you weren't so abrasive you might find others agree with you more.

Moving on, the below document sums up the MFD issue.

Given that it doesn't include 1 week chits for minor injuries, it suggests that 1 in 10 blokes in the army can't function. (Assuming all MLD can still work fine but need gloves etc)

That would suggest that in order to be fully manned, we actually need to be overmanned by 10 percent.

It also suggests that there's units out there that have way higher percentages of MND because in my current lot of 50 blokes, there's not one.


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The easy option is just to **** over the fit blokes. Which is exactly what happens because the task needs to be completed.
I had this argument before on here about MLD, the vast majority of them aren't anywhere near fully deployable. They can manage a Tosca tour but not a Herrick. They can manage an exercise in Belize/Canada but not Sennebridge/Otterburn. Anyone thinking they are almost fully deployable is waffling.
Although it's a handy way of pretending its not so bad.
 
Odds? What, they're probably too old to play said sport competitively any more, good chance the sport has played a part in their injury. You fit soldiers tend to want to play the sport and have zero interest in giving back.

Based on what precisely?
A biff but fit enough to run up and down a pitch? Sound like they want to pick and chose what they want to do.
Based on the fact if you get a grip of the cnuts (for example not letting play sports) they get better.
 
You seem to be under the impression that the Army are making people downgraded due to the job
A sizable amount of biffs are becoming staying on the biff because it's an easy option. A 8 to 5 job, no guard, no exercises, no PT, no "fun" competition, still get promoted, still play sport etc. What's not to like?
When I was at 4 regt the cockwombles of a CO and RSM wasn't happy with the fitness rates in the regiment. So we (the fit) had to parade at 0730 (0630 if it was swimming) every morning 5 times a week. The biffs had to parade at 1400 everyday except Friday because it was early knock off.
Surprisingly enough the biff rate went up.
I’m not under that impression at all. I’m saying that somewhere there is a level of downgrade that should be expected. As I’ve said several times, I’ve no idea what that level is, but it certainly isn’t zero or the insignificant numbers that @John G recollects. Not in today’s age of duty of care.

Two conclusions to draw from that; commitments need to recognise that there will always be undeployable soldiers and the level of such needs to be a key performance indicator.

Like so much of issues you post about, the solution for malingering buffs lies at regimental level and below. It beats me how an organisation that spends as much on educating and training its leaders and managers can get this stuff so wrong.
 
The easy option is just to **** over the fit blokes. Which is exactly what happens because the task needs to be completed.
I had this argument before on here about MLD, the vast majority of them aren't anywhere near fully deployable. They can manage a Tosca tour but not a Herrick. They can manage an exercise in Belize/Canada but not Sennebridge/Otterburn. Anyone thinking they are almost fully deployable is waffling.
Although it's a handy way of pretending its not so bad.
It is not for the soldier to decide what tour or exercise they can go on.
 
It is not for the soldier to decide what tour or exercise they can go on.
It is when you need bods to go on them tosca/herrick but the biffs can't possibly go to Afghanistan. Same with exercises, sports, AT etc.
Then you get ********* in charge boasting how they "are getting the job done".
 
I’m not under that impression at all. I’m saying that somewhere there is a level of downgrade that should be expected. As I’ve said several times, I’ve no idea what that level is, but it certainly isn’t zero or the insignificant numbers that @John G recollects. Not in today’s age of duty of care.

Two conclusions to draw from that; commitments need to recognise that there will always be undeployable soldiers and the level of such needs to be a key performance indicator.

Like so much of issues you post about, the solution for malingering buffs lies at regimental level and below. It beats me how an organisation that spends as much on educating and training its leaders and managers can get this stuff so wrong.
The number will always fluctuate depending on a regiment and it's commitment. An infantry regiment fighting non stop in a conflict zone will probably have more injuries than a unit sat on its arse in Aldershot. However it appears a lot of the injuries aren't conflict related. It further appears that when someone is exempt PFT/CFT/guard/exercises etc and don't face any sort of hardship for doing so that they don't want to get back to full fitness.
While I agree it's the regiments who let it continue, it's those higher up that let the regiments continue. The stats that were put up earlier on this page still show the biff rate at 22%. Nobody at VSO level seems to give a ****. After all it won't be them covering the shite work will it?
 
I wondered how long it would take for this one to appear in the press. it seems someone thought that someone thought that a true representation of the Army was lots and lots of BAME and perhaps gay BAME people until someone looked at the lineup and realised there was not one white female there. Anyway a trawl went out for volunteers recently on DII, free jolly to Morocco, so why not?

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Seems a bit more sharp practice on the recruiting front as well. recruitment teams sent to far away hot places with, in the main, majority non caucasian populations and recruit nearly 100 people on a fast track, two months from interview to basic training, induction process. Average time for a UK applicant? 18 months.

Now I wonder who is carrying the can for both recruitment and BAME issues?

 
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The number will always fluctuate depending on a regiment and it's commitment. An infantry regiment fighting non stop in a conflict zone will probably have more injuries than a unit sat on its arse in Aldershot. However it appears a lot of the injuries aren't conflict related. It further appears that when someone is exempt PFT/CFT/guard/exercises etc and don't face any sort of hardship for doing so that they don't want to get back to full fitness.
While I agree it's the regiments who let it continue, it's those higher up that let the regiments continue. The stats that were put up earlier on this page still show the biff rate at 22%. Nobody at VSO level seems to give a ****. After all it won't be them covering the shite work will it?
Get that completely; it’s self evident that injury rates will vary with role. What isn’t self-evident is that rates of downgrading will be higher in an infantry battalion back from tour rather than a 2nd line logistic unit that has been in barracks for a year and struggles to keep its people gainfully busy.

That’s where data and analysis comes in. The Army is (easily) big enough to have a wealth of mineable data on this and to base decisions and strive for continuous improvement.

If you asked me what the one big thing I have learnt in business, it’s follow the data. Track key performance indicators and analyse them regularly. Use them to drive improvement and share best practice between units.
 
Have a guess? ;)
Amazing that. Yet some people on here would have let him continue to take the piss and then wonder why he is on the biff so long.
 
Suppliers were known as blanket stackers as far back as the RAOC days. You should get out more. TBH I’d always assumed that’s what your avatar was about.

And every Sapper field unit I served in had an RP shift manned the way I described. It seems a far better system than what you describe.
Be fair.

It’s the 21st century.

Things have moved on.

They’re ‘Duvet Technicans’ now.
 
Be fair.

It’s the 21st century.

Things have moved on.

They’re ‘Duvet Technicans’ now.
Nah, blankets, like vinyl records, space invaders and hairy minges are the retro fashion of the day.

Although I did suggest the duvet technician thing a couple of days ago; I mean, he’s not exactly Gen Z.

Not sure how the hell he served 24 years without realising that the rest of the Army referred to his trade as stackers......and the n used it as his avatar.
 
I'm surprised at that. In the RAF you can't do AT unless you are fully fit and in-date fitness test (and swimming test if applicable). You can't do official sport either, and would void any med insurance coverage if found to winging it.
Don't be.

Stacker is talking out of his hoop.
 
It is when you need bods to go on them tosca/herrick but the biffs can't possibly go to Afghanistan. Same with exercises, sports, AT etc.
Then you get ********* in charge boasting how they "are getting the job done".
The FGen process in the RLC must be quite different then. I’ve always known ORBATS be done at platoon/coy HQ level.
 
The FGen process in the RLC must be quite different then. I’ve always known ORBATS be done at platoon/coy HQ level.
It doesn't matter what the level is, if you 50 Tosca places and 50 places in a FOB in Afghanistan. You have to send the fit bods to Afghanistan. If you dont have another 50 fit blokes to send to Cyprus, the biffs go.
Remarkably when something good is on the table the biffs managed to man up and "struggle" to assist.
 
Don't be.

Stacker is talking out of his hoop.
Say the man who beleives its victimisation when biffs can't do sport.
22 years and you beleived that shit.
 

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