Army Numbers Fall Again

Inevitably your "pretty certain", apart from concerning dingerr, is completely wrong.

Moving on, though, and back on topic
I happen to agree with you, but the difference is in our interpretation of the consequences.

In my view the lack of cse places is part of the problem on all levels. Not only are the "jollies" on cses less available, losing a direct "motivator", as are places on career / trade cses, but as a consequence leaders and commanders have far less of a spread of knowledge and experience they can pass on to their peers and subordinates, either as useful "interest" periods or to make their subordinates better all-round soldiers.

Instead, as an indirect consequence, those same leaders and commanders, particularly at a relatively junior level (yours and mine) are left with two options:
  • Beggar the tps about to fill in "spare" time - generally counter-productive.
  • Fall them out, which could leave them doing nothing but twiddling their thumbs as (Mon - Thurs) the singlies may not have enough time to do anything othercthan sit staring at the walls - again, generally counter-productive.
You've put your finger very firmly on one of the many reasons for the Army's retention issues. Unfortunately you've completely missed it.
Clearly I misread all those posts laughing at you wearing French wings. I also clearly missed all those posts that you wrote in the 3 months afterwards.

Twiddle their thumbs? They don't live in the 1980s anymore, they are playing world of Warcraft, watching Sky, download some hard core porn, Skyping their bird/bloke.
 
The recruiting issue seems to have been solved, at least in the infantry.

Catterick is full up with recruits. The Feb intake in 2018 was 28 recruits, the Sep intake 2019 has 150.
The recruitment is better rather than solved. I said a few months ago, that one day there will be a spike in recruitment and the Army will claim a victory. It like saying Greece's economy is sorted because they have a slight expansion.
I also question just who they are letting in, Deepcut were sending people who went straight on the sick. (sick in Deepcut, get better for a week to post them out, straight back on the sick). The units are then stuck with them for the next 4 years, but it makes the stats look better.
 
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WhiskeyTango

Old-Salt
Let me expand on my post before I answer yours.

By solved I mean the key issues within the recruiting agencies to get troops to depot in a reasonable time frame. They are now able to deliver recruits to the instructors, something that seemed impossible last year.

I doubt the number of interested people has increased much, it was glaringly obvious that the problem was in the pipeline, not either end, so to speak. We also have a huge increase in foreign and commonwealth (15 to 20 percent of an intake) rocking up too.

Now to answer your point.

You're right in saying that there are some pretty shocking individuals who slipped through the net. I'm not sure that in itself is new, mind.

But at least when the infantry training centre is full, suddenly nobody minds if you start actively culling the terminally weak. Trying to kick out or backsquad a guy is pretty difficult when he is one of 18 soldiers due to pass out and is the only dude in 3 months going to a Bn that is hanging out for men, even useless ones.
 
Recruitment is never going to be “solved”. The Army is recruiting in a highly competitive environment. The system needs constant optimisation otherwise it fall behind. It needs to be better than anything else that attracts its targets.

Every stage of the process has to be working well. There’s no point investing huge sums of money in advertising if the system then leaks good leads along the way because it’s shit.

So I’d say Catterick being full is a major step forward. One part of the system; the bit that attracts, qualifies and processes infantry recruits is working. And the Army should be able to explain why so that it can achieve the same for the Corps.
 
Let me expand on my post before I answer yours.

By solved I mean the key issues within the recruiting agencies to get troops to depot in a reasonable time frame. They are now able to deliver recruits to the instructors, something that seemed impossible last year.

I doubt the number of interested people has increased much, it was glaringly obvious that the problem was in the pipeline, not either end, so to speak. We also have a huge increase in foreign and commonwealth (15 to 20 percent of an intake) rocking up too.

Now to answer your point.

You're right in saying that there are some pretty shocking individuals who slipped through the net. I'm not sure that in itself is new, mind.

But at least when the infantry training centre is full, suddenly nobody minds if you start actively culling the terminally weak. Trying to kick out or backsquad a guy is pretty difficult when he is one of 18 soldiers due to pass out and is the only dude in 3 months going to a Bn that is hanging out for men, even useless ones.
Some pretty poor quality recruits coming into the reserve, in my opinion. Driven, of course, by the desire for numbers. It can be difficult to get rid of them, but luckily a lot are self selecting and leave by their own choice. Which lowers the numbers, which leads to unsuitable recruits being accepted...
 
It was pointed out to me today that going to a knocking shop now contravenes our Values and Standards and is a punishable offence in some locations. This would have shut Germany down not so long ago.
 
It was pointed out to me today that going to a knocking shop now contravenes our Values and Standards and is a punishable offence in some locations. This would have shut Germany down not so long ago.
They would have shit their pants over one of the female toms at 16 regt earning a bit extra at the local "massage" parlour.
 
It was pointed out to me today that going to a knocking shop now contravenes our Values and Standards and is a punishable offence in some locations. This would have shut Germany down not so long ago.

Christ, the Eros centre on the Reeperbahn was always rammed with squaddies. So I've heard. :hump: ;)
 
It was pointed out to me today that going to a knocking shop now contravenes our Values and Standards and is a punishable offence in some locations. This would have shut Germany down not so long ago.
Derived from the Human Trafficking Act 2105, not senior officers’ morals. All government departments and businesses over a certain size are required to have a human trafficking policy which will inevitably ban staff from using toms because the majority are trafficked.

IIRC it derives from EU law, which explains the Industrial scale trafficking into Germany’s sex business.
 
All government departments and businesses over a certain size are required to have a human trafficking policy which will inevitably ban staff from using toms because the majority are trafficked.
Far from sure that's correct - I'm not an expert but I would have said the vast majority are entirely voluntary.

I'm sure, though, that many become "trafficked" once the immigration or morals police move in.
 
But at least when the infantry training centre is full, suddenly nobody minds if you start actively culling the terminally weak.
At the ITC, "yes", as has always been the case. How about the "terminally weak" who aren't fully deployable and make up some 20% of the Army? Any sign of that happening?
 
Far from sure that's correct - I'm not an expert but I would have said the vast majority are entirely voluntary.

I'm sure, though, that many become "trafficked" once the immigration or morals police move in.
UNODOC estimate that over 70% of the world’s prostitutes are trafficked. The EU put the figures in member states with legal sex industries as being higher. Trafficking includes those who voluntarily move to work in the second industry only to find that their terms of employment are very different to what they were lead to believe.

Whatever, the Army treating using whores as a V&S issue is entirely coherent with anti-trafficking legislation which clearly identifies the sex trade as being a major trafficker.
 
UNODOC estimate that over 70% of the world’s prostitutes are trafficked. The EU put the figures in member states with legal sex industries as being higher. Trafficking includes those who voluntarily move to work in the second industry only to find that their terms of employment are very different to what they were lead to believe.

Whatever, the Army treating using whores as a V&S issue is entirely coherent with anti-trafficking legislation which clearly identifies the sex trade as being a major trafficker.
It has been a long time since any of my colleagues ahem visited anything like the Reeperbahn. They tell me that there were a lot of German girls working then, as well as a minority of a others. I take it that the demographics have changed?

The economist in me says legalise and tax (properly), rather than persecute and prosecute.
 
The economist in me says legalise and tax (properly), rather than persecute and prosecute.
Germany and the Netherlands have liberalized prostitution, women in those countries are still repeatedly raped to pay their pimps.
 
Their models could be used an example of how not to do it?
Not really, I doubt few people like being fucked repeatedly by strangers unless its for a great deal of cash, most bints do it because they are forced to or because they are really desperate for the money.
 
Germany and the Netherlands have liberalized prostitution, women in those countries are still repeatedly raped to pay their pimps.
Not sure that what Germany has done is liberalisation. Prostitution has always been legal in Germany; what they did was change the tax laws. Prostitutes have to be licensed and pay tax, including VAT. Most states charge the tax up front as a daily charge; the girls pay it daily whether or not they work.

Given that some estimates say over half of Germany’s sex workers are trafficked, it means that the German Government is actually complicit in and profiteering from trafficking. Hence my initial comment.

The whole thing stinks.
 
Not sure that what Germany has done is liberalisation. Prostitution has always been legal in Germany; what they did was change the tax laws. Prostitutes have to be licensed and pay tax, including VAT. Most states charge the tax up front as a daily charge; the girls pay it daily whether or not they work.

Given that some estimates say over half of Germany’s sex workers are trafficked, it means that the German Government is actually complicit in and profiteering from trafficking. Hence my initial comment.

The whole thing stinks.
It absolutely doesn’t have to though. Up front profit might drop but long term state spend against members of said profession should too.
 

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