Army Numbers Fall Again

Just_plain_you

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1. We don’t compete with Avon because we don’t make life rafts, rubber dinghies or tyres. You have no idea what my business does, so why bring it up? We do not complete with any business called Avon.....

2. Once again you are either deliberately misrepresenting what I posted or you are too think to understand. Generational behaviours are well documented, particularly the shift on expectations, loyalties etc of the digitally native. My point remains; to compete to recruit and retain Gen Z, the Army has to change the way it treats them. And that goes far further than the petty barrack room minutiae that you rail against.

3. No, in stuff like this COs give direction. The coercive behaviours happen well beneath that level. A toxic RSM can IMHO do far more damage than a toxic CO.

4. The truth is the Army’s problems are not simply about stopping messing soldiers around. They deep touted and institutional.

5. Final point, is you’re earning more than your former OC, your eyes might just be opened and your horizons lifted from an insular Troop level viewpoint.
I thought you ran a third rate make up site?

Gen Z? I thought it was millennials? Let me tell you a secret, because clearly you didn't speak to your toms, in the early 90s, soldiers had the same expectations as soldiers of today, to not be treated like cnuts, the main difference is that the Toms today are linked to the internet and can see the utter bullshit that officers spout, for 24 years I've been hearing various officers tell the sqn/regt that Bloggs has fucked up his life forever because he has failed his CDT, today the toms can see that Bloggs has got a decent job 5 minutes after leaving. They can see what the world can offer. There was someone on here who spoke of the fantastic 38 days of leave which is so much better than civvie street, I wonder how often he spouted that crap when he was serving, luckily I was able to inform him that far from the 10 extra days more than civvies your average Tom lose more than that on duties/exercises over weekends.

The CO signs off orders as well, like the orders threatening JNCOs with debt collectors. A CO who doesnt know what his RSM is doing is a twat who does'nt deserve his rank. Remember the bit I said a few posts back about talking to your soldiers...

The truth is if the Army stopped messing soldiers around it would make a massive difference.

I am taking home more than my former OC, for a lot less work and no bullshit I wish I fucked of 2 years ago when I was eligible for my pension. Civvie street is ******* easy.
 
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Seems almost as if Col Kestrel is implying that Sikhs and Muslims are not professional soldiers...
It does sound a bit racist
(and sexist if you include the splitarses)
 
Cheers mate, although Im sure Bob will "doubt" it.
Its a shame I cant find the one about Afghans getting murdered bringing fuel to British bases so officers can waste part of it looking smart.

Edit I notice in that link there is a fair bit of slagging off about the bullshit on tour including the scalie backs.

But Im sure there will be some excuses from the usual suspects why it either didnt happen or it was all the fault of WOs.
 

FEASG

LE
As the commitments for officers and ORs are relatively similar I think the reason's far simpler: a reluctance to change and a propensity to promote those only in your own image.

Obviously I'm talking in comparative terms given the differences in size, but to look at more recent supposed "changes" the sad reality despite the hype is that the numbers doing the PODC confirm that there are no more being commissioned from the ranks going through RMAS than there were forty years ago - a rather sad 10%. There are more LEs, so distorting and supporting the Army's hype that 30% of officers are from the ranks, but rather than competing with DE officers they're still doing the same jobs - the ones the DE officers don't want.

Those going through RMAS with a public school background have dropped from around 60% forty years ago to 48 - 45%, which the Army makes a big deal of, but they overlook that the numbers applying from public schools has dropped by as much as 40% so the number of ex-public school applicants passing from AOSB and out of RMAS has actually gone up rather than down.

Hardly striding into the future - more like floundering around in the past.
Again I'm with you to a point. The officers career path has always given a much more, varied life than , that of the junior ranks (Staff Jobs, Lone service opportunities etc). Having been on Operational tours where, the unit considered to a multiple as a Pl and tasked it as such, I would differ, from your view. The Pl commander and Pl Sgt worked no harder, yet the lads were hammered, covering the short fall. To a point where even, the simplest task , became a sleep deprivation exercise.

Now bring this back to a mainly UK based army. Where a Soldier will spend most of his time in a garrison miles from home and having down time cancelled at zero notice, to cover dutys, due to short fall and you are looking at the perfect storm.

To state that it is not worth changing a system while acsepting that it is broken. Is not something that is likly to turn out well
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
seen/heard of this stuff on FYB but never yet been in a unit that enforced it.
It smells of a systemic problem in the capbadge because I’ve never experienced it or know of someone who has experienced it.
I hate to go all 'G3 snob' but I think that has an awful lot to do with the fact you're in the infantry. I haven't heard about this problem specifically but I do know about a lot of behaviour that matches what @Stacker is talking about and I think it's mostly isolated to certain corps.
 
I hate to go all 'G3 snob' but I think that has an awful lot to do with the fact you're in the infantry. I haven't heard about this problem specifically but I do know about a lot of behaviour that matches what @Stacker is talking about and I think it's mostly isolated to certain corps.

I believe it was a guards regiment who threatened the soldiers with not going home on a Friday if they didnt chip in for a seniors leaving gift. Which gave rise to the Army SM saying "I got this" on Twitter or FYB when he had to intervene.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I believe it was a guards regiment who threatened the soldiers with not going home on a Friday if they didnt chip in for a seniors leaving gift. Which gave rise to the Army SM saying "I got this" on Twitter or FYB when he had to intervene.
That was the Coldstream I think. Although it's probably not the best example of your point given that it was a WhatsApp from a Sgt that was posted on FYB.
 
That was the Coldstream I think. Although it's probably not the best example of your point given that it was a WhatsApp from a Sgt that was posted on FYB.
I think its an indication of what happens all over the Army. The fact the CO might not have been directing that order, doesnt excuse him from not knowing what happens in his unit.

Cpl Mess, rank slides, belts, t-shirts, leaving gifts, compulsory functions are not the preserve of the RLC. Not judging by some of the post on here, letters to the soldier mag and FYB. You just hear about it more from the RLC on here because I like talking about it.
 
Which is as it should be. Equally, though, if you don't pay in you can't take out...
The thing is, most soldiers nowadays dont need to pay into anything. It very easy to say x function is going to happen on this date and it will cost x amount. Who wants to go? Because the Army lives decades in the past they have to pay into a fund to get back 5 or 10 quid off the price of a function.
 
The thing is, most soldiers nowadays dont need to pay into anything. It very easy to say x function is going to happen on this date and it will cost x amount. Who wants to go? Because the Army lives decades in the past they have to pay into a fund to get back 5 or 10 quid off the price of a function.
As an OC Sqn, I used Sqn funds to subsidise various functions and trips. Nobody was ever forced to pay for anything that they didn't wish to attend. They also got some freebies too...

In the CS, we used to run a tea club of £5 pcm plus an optional £25 on top to pay for your annual team trip away (flights and 2* hotel all paid for up front out of the tea club surplus). It meant a free trip to Barcelona, Brussels, Lille (on the Eurostar), Prague, etc.
 
As an OC Sqn, I used Sqn funds to subsidise various functions and trips. Nobody was ever forced to pay for anything that they didn't wish to attend. They also got some freebies too...

In the CS, we used to run a tea club of £5 pcm plus an optional £25 on top to pay for your annual team trip away (flights and 2* hotel all paid for up front out of the tea club surplus). It meant a free trip to Barcelona, Brussels, Lille (on the Eurostar), Prague, etc.
Tea club is slightly different. You want a brew you have to pay.

With subs, did you need to make the lads pay into something even if you give it back to them? Clearly nobody can ever get more out of the fund unless they take it of someone else. I'm going to take a SWAG and say it's just something you did because that's the way it's always been done.
 
In the CS, we used to run a tea club of £5 pcm plus an optional £25 on top to pay for your annual team trip away (flights and 2* hotel all paid for up front out of the tea club surplus). It meant a free trip to Barcelona, Brussels, Lille (on the Eurostar), Prague, etc.
2* Hotel?! You’re dead to me! :grin:
 
Tea club is slightly different. You want a brew you have to pay.

With subs, did you need to make the lads pay into something even if you give it back to them? Clearly nobody can ever get more out of the fund unless they take it of someone else. I'm going to take a SWAG and say it's just something you did because that's the way it's always been done.
Nobody paid anything into Sqn funds. I had three regular income streams paying into them. Seniors and officers paid into the Regimental Messes, juniors did not put their hands into their pockets unless they wanted to.

The point about the tea club is that members could chose to make additional voluntary contributions so that they got a free long weekend away in return. Because we always had a bit of small surplus, it meant that everyone got a free team buffet lunch once a month once too...
 
Let's be honest, when you've had a meal and a skin full, do you really need to get your nut down in a 4 or 5* joint?
Teasing H_M. You’re absolutely spot on.
Have to say, some of the so-called 4* hotels I’ve stayed in Italy and the USA, I wouldn’t have given them a single star.
 
Nobody paid anything into Sqn funds. I had three regular income streams paying into them. Seniors and officers paid into the Regimental Messes, juniors did not put their hands into their pockets unless they wanted to.

The point about the tea club is that members could chose to make additional voluntary contributions so that they got a free long weekend away in return. Because we always had a bit of small surplus, it meant that everyone got a free team buffet lunch once a month once too...
Ive ran similar with fizzy drinks or participated in one with a fine system when boxing, however they are few and far between.

However, most of the rest of society manages to pay for something when they need to. If the Army followed suit there might be a few less complaints.
 

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