"Army needs lad culture, so soldiers go and fight the enemy," said General Sir Nick Carter.

DSJ

LE
As an aside.
I saw more bullying, sexism and racism per every 6 months in civvie street than I saw in 12.5 years in the Army.
The reason for this is it could be dealt with by the blokes at the time whereas this is illegal in civvie street.
Most of the bullying etc. was things like bosses thinking they were superior to their workers and talking down to them, thus holding them back. Most officers and nco's I worked with in the Army knew we were all the same, just doing different jobs. We all relied on each other and wanted everyone to be as good as they could be.
I should point out I was REME, mostly with RA and never served with Infantry who may have been different.

In different scales in terms of time served, but ditto to the above. I found bullying to be more commonplace and insidious in the world of civilian employment. A friend (themselves ex- forces) was bullied by their line manager to the point where they ended up having to go off sick. The possibility of a ‘robust response’ was simply not there.
 
In different scales in terms of time served, but ditto to the above. I found bullying to be more commonplace and insidious in the world of civilian employment. A friend (themselves ex- forces) was bullied by their line manager they ended up having to go off sick. The possibility of a ‘robust response’ was simply not there.
I have been the victim of office politics, as I was in my last job and could leave any time once my Army pension kicked in and paid off my mortgage I was able to laugh at it. Mostly up till then I was in mgmt and was able to deal with it.
However I have seen good people leave as a result and the firm get worse as a result.
 
Plenty of young lads I deal with in the process of committing a crime would make fantastic soldiers once they got the discipline put in them. Unfortunately a criminal record with lots of assaults etc at the age of 18/19 means the army simply isn't an option for them.

Which has always been a bit silly.

"I see you've been arrested for battering cnuts... You can't join the army where you might have to kill cnuts, sorry."
Local bobby to me and a mate circa 1966 "the pair of you will end up in the jail, if you keep hanging around on street corners looking for trouble" Fast forward to Armagh city centre 1972.
 
Local bobby to me and a mate circa 1966 "the pair of you will end up in the jail, if you keep hanging around on street corners looking for trouble" Fast forward to Armagh city centre 1972.
Not sure whether a like or funny is most appropriate.
But we used to say the Army was better than walking the streets.
 
There was a Documentary on BBC 1 back in 1998 called "Paper Tiger" during which an M.O.D. Official stated "Of The 1800 Service People We Interviewed, Only 20 Said They Would Recommend The Forces As An Employer".
I wonder how much of this was because a moaning soldier is a happy soldier.
 

Agony_Aunt

War Hero
There was a Documentary on BBC 1 back in 1998 called "Paper Tiger" during which an M.O.D. Official stated "Of The 1800 Service People We Interviewed, Only 20 Said They Would Recommend The Forces As An Employer".

Was that before the service personnel had office jobs in civvy street, thinking the grass would be greener there?
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
I wonder how much of this was because a moaning soldier is a happy soldier.
If your men are bitching and moaning, all is good in the world. If they are quiet and sullen, start flapping, for they are either planning something, or have already planned it, put it in place and are simply awaiting it to happen.
 
D

Deleted 161401

Guest
I wonder how much of this was because a moaning soldier is a happy soldier.
As an aside, one of my Toms in Tidworth had a number of preprogrammed responses to most questions; these included, but were not limited to:

i. This is sh1t
ii. This is bone
iii. What a waste of time

He couldn’t, when challenged, identify anything specific that was the originator of the above, nor could he identify anything he could reasonably be doing instead. Last heard of a couple of years ago as a WO2, so it all couldn’t have been that bad, could it Popeye?
 

Yokel

LE
I wonder if CDS has been talking lessons from Gerald Ratner on public relations? I wonder if by laddish he means people that:

1. Are not averse to physical things - be it sporting or fitness type activities or practical things such as making or repairing things.
2. Will not ignore something they think is wrong, but do something about it - such as a mate being threatened or doors being open when they should be shut.
3. Can cope with minor setbacks. KFC closed? Go somewhere else, no posting on Facebook etc that you are hungry.
4. Are sociable and willing to mix.
 
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MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
If your men are bitching and moaning, all is good in the world. If they are quiet and sullen, start flapping, for they are either planning something, or have already planned it, put it in place and are simply awaiting it to happen.
Very well put. There is a fine line between moaning soldiers and unhappy soldiers, and a bad OC will not be able to spot the change when it happens.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
Very well put. There is a fine line between moaning soldiers and unhappy soldiers, and a bad OC will not be able to spot the change when it happens.
In one my friend.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
I wonder if CDS has been talking lessons from Gerald Ratner on public relations? I wonder if by laddish he means people that:

1. Are not averse to physical things - be it sporting or fitness type activities or practical things such as making or repairing things.
2. Will not ignore something they think is wrong, but do something about it - such as a mate being threated or doors being open when they should be shit.
3. Can cope with minor setbacks. KFC closed? Go somewhere else, no posting on Facebook etc that you are hungry.
4. Are sociable and willing to mix.
Oooohhh the modern woke brigade will have you for that, way to masculine and far to much of a ‘can do’ attitude there, not to mention the fact that you speak of people able to think for themselves and who do not need someone to hold their hands, or even tell them how great they are every 2 minutes:D
 
Because you were never in a conflict.

No, mate. The six were just another tab in the rain in the 70s.
Go take another medal out of the lucky box and find your safe space.
I'll give you this though for free, the big bosses of today were all sublaterns in my day and they've f'cked the finest fighting force kilo for kilo of the last century and it's going to get worse until someone with a pair gets a grip of the policy wonks in the MOD, FO and Downing Street; so that point, I'll leave it alone now.
 
D

Deleted 161401

Guest
No, mate. The six were just another tab in the rain in the 70s.
Go take another medal out of the lucky box and find your safe space.
I'll give you this though for free, the big bosses of today were all sublaterns in my day and they've f'cked the finest fighting force kilo for kilo of the last century and it's going to get worse until someone with a pair gets a grip of the policy wonks in the MOD, FO and Downing Street; so that point, I'll leave it alone now.
And blokes were still getting killed in “the six” in the 1990s and beyond. And yes, the VSOs of today were your subalterns; but subalterns learn from their platoon sergeants.

So it’s actually your fault.
 
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Old_Sparky_RE

Old-Salt
...except that British homosexuals joined up alongside the straight lads, and fought and died with them. There were British women driving ambulances, delivering bombers and fighters, parachuting into occupied France. Look at the example of Siegfried Sassoon MC, or any of the other mad bastards who fell into the category of "everyone knows, no-one cares".
My father joined up in November 1939 as soon as he turned 18, on getting off the bus at the training depo the Sgt at the door to the billet said "Ladies at the the end, men in the middle and boys by the door".
A few men went to the end of the billet and put up a couple of blankets to segregate the room. These men were the homosexuals (Just incase any wags get writing he was in the boy area as he was under 21).

In the Middle East (not to sure if it was Iraq or Egypt, but he did tell me) it was the "Camp Queer" who saved the Sqn when he let rip with what ever he could get his hands on when the Germans attacked the desert camp while everyone else was pulling on boots!
as you said @Gravelbelly ..."everyone knows, no-one cares".
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
My father joined up in November 1939 as soon as he turned 18, on getting off the bus at the training depo the Sgt at the door to the billet said "Ladies at the the end, men in the middle and boys by the door".
A few men went to the end of the billet and put up a couple of blankets to segregate the room. These men were the homosexuals (Just incase any wags get writing he was in the boy area as he was under 21).

In the Middle East (not to sure if it was Iraq or Egypt, but he did tell me) it was the "Camp Queer" who saved the Sqn when he let rip with what ever he could get his hands on when the Germans attacked the desert camp while everyone else was pulling on boots!
as you said @Gravelbelly ..."everyone knows, no-one cares".

The character 'Witty' in 'The Wild Geese' captured the 'everyone knows, no-one cares' attitude exactly.
 
No, mate. The six were just another tab in the rain in the 70s.
Go take another medal out of the lucky box and find your safe space.
I'll give you this though for free, the big bosses of today were all sublaterns in my day and they've f'cked the finest fighting force kilo for kilo of the last century and it's going to get worse until someone with a pair gets a grip of the policy wonks in the MOD, FO and Downing Street; so that point, I'll leave it alone now.

Yes - no doubt.

But, they were dealt an exceptionally difficult hand to play.

Demographics and social change were against VSOs. One reason why the army was so effective was that it drew on a large recruiting pool of tough, working class recruits. They were amenable to harsh basic training and were generally competent and practical people who were up for a good scrap. The army could - and did - get rid of anyone who didn't make the grade or didn't fit in. Basic training was a filtering process as much as a training process.

By the mid 80s, social attitudes were changing and recruits were more questioning of authority and less conformist. By the early 90s, the recruiting pool was shrinking fast - there simply weren't as many 16 - 25 year olds. They also had more life choices, different expectations - and weren't as robust.

Add decades or relentless government cuts, pressure to meet quotas at any cost, and political interference by people with wokist agendas, and you have a drift towards mediocrity.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer

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