Army Headline of the Day

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
They must be tied to a Chaplaincy class for pay and pension?
And they must have a rank equivalency for entitlements too.
Yes they are CF but don’t hold or wear rank. They have a badge.
 

QRK2

LE
Do they hold a commission?

FWIW, so you can attempt to fulfil your fixation with pigeonholing them in your quaint, blinkered military way. You should really try to get into the outside world some time, ideally before you are made to.

As Ministers and Priests of the Christian Church and commissioned by Her Majesty the Queen, chaplains provide spiritual and pastoral well-being for all Service personnel and their dependants. They are to be given every assistance to fulfil their ministry. They are not to perform executive or operational duties save those proper to their profession. When a commissioned chaplain cannot be made available, civilian clergy of the appropriate denomination may be appointed as Officiating Chaplains to the Military (OCMs). The MOD employs Chaplains of the World Faiths to meet the spiritual needs of all World Faith personnel. Chaplains hold the Sovereign’s Commission, but no Naval rank other than that of Chaplain Royal Navy.

BR2 Ch16
 
FWIW, so you can attempt to fulfil your fixation with pigeonholing them in your quaint, blinkered military way. You should really try to get into the outside world some time, ideally before you are made to.

As Ministers and Priests of the Christian Church and commissioned by Her Majesty the Queen, chaplains provide spiritual and pastoral well-being for all Service personnel and their dependants. They are to be given every assistance to fulfil their ministry. They are not to perform executive or operational duties save those proper to their profession. When a commissioned chaplain cannot be made available, civilian clergy of the appropriate denomination may be appointed as Officiating Chaplains to the Military (OCMs). The MOD employs Chaplains of the World Faiths to meet the spiritual needs of all World Faith personnel. Chaplains hold the Sovereign’s Commission, but no Naval rank other than that of Chaplain Royal Navy.

BR2 Ch16
No need to be rude, it's unbecoming. I have no experience, beyond seeing one in a queue for a flight, I take it they function in the same way as RAF and ARMY Padres, with the same type of pay, Commission and entitlements?
 
You need to calibrate this. Is your argument that we don't need someone with a relevant degree, life experience and empowerment (read sits outside of the CoC) within the welfare chains?

My argument is that the Army can do better than a small group of religious people who have a degree in theology, possibly from sexist/homophobic organizations and are only in the military because a decision was made centuries ago and no one has thought to change it.
 
No need to be rude, it's unbecoming. I have no experience, beyond seeing one in a queue for a flight, I take it they function in the same way as RAF and ARMY Padres, with the same type of pay, Commission and entitlements?

But no rank, how on earth do Navy officers needing pastoral care manage? Its an outrage!!!!!
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If the experience of similar armies is anything to go by women won’t be joining the infantry in great numbers.

The Canadians have had women in the infantry for over 20 years and have only ever had a slack handful. More officers than troops.

If that holds true in the British Arm that will mean non tenth arms will have to have more than 30% women to compensate for the lack of women in the teeth arms.

Depends on if someone complains that the infantry are sexist.

There are already complaints in the airline industry that pilots are mainly male and those serving the drinks are females.
 
But no rank, how on earth do Navy officers needing pastoral care manage? Its an outrage!!!!!
Looks like an officer, is paid like an officer, has the same entitlements as an officer...and a commission. Possibly the same as the ARMY and RAF then? I've only said that an Army officer is unlikely to confide in a SNCO.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
30% of 80K is 24000

30% of 70K is 21000

If your target remains constant at 30% you need 3000 less at 70K to achieve target.
That's what I thought you meant. You've misunderstood the effect of other variables like outflow on proportions. If the other variables remain the same, there is no particular reason why 21000 at 70k is easier to achieve than 24000 at 80k, because the change in size is relative to the UK population, and when we are talking a relative change of 0.01% of the population that is unlikely to have any substantial effect.

You might be thinking in the wrong categories. The relevant numbers aren't 80k and 70k, they are 67million and 80k, or 67million and 70k, because the first number is the eligible recruitment pool, or the statistical (as well as national) population. So it's not a 30% change, or a 12.5% change ((80k-70k)=10k/80k) it's a 0.01% (10k/67m) change. Since the Army is retaining/recruiting women at a previous rate insufficient to achieve 30% of 80k, there is no reason to think a 0.01% relative increase in the recruiting pool will be sufficient to achieve 30% of 70k.

So if it wasn't able to get those 3000 women yesterday at 80k, it won't get those 3000 women tomorrow at 70k.
 
That's what I thought you meant.
Stop, stop, stop. That is the only point I made.

I did not misunderstand any of the variables I just did not take the conversation beyond the target.

So if it wasn't able to get those 3000 women yesterday at 80k, it won't get those 3000 women tomorrow at 70k.
Totally, completely and utterly agree, however reducing the total means the existing staff become a higher percentage, thus a success, or partial success can be claimed.

(All they need to do is maintain the existing strength of females)
 
I've only said that an Army officer is unlikely to confide in a SNCO.
As an officer I thought a minimum capability was to sort my own issues out. I certainly would never seek the advice of someone who believed:

  1. “You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.”
  2. “You shall not eat of their flesh (pork) nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”
  3. “Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”
  4. “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.”
  5. ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'”
  6. “A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord.”
  7. “No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord.”
  8. “Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.”
  9. “If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”
Instead I would either avoid or offer them help. (although I share their belief in number 8 when it comes to wives and daughters ;-) )
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Stop, stop, stop. That is the only point I made.

I did not misunderstand any of the variables I just did not take the conversation beyond the target.


Totally, completely and utterly agree, however reducing the total means the existing staff become a higher percentage, thus a success, or partial success can be claimed.

(All they need to do is maintain the existing strength of females)
Again, that doesn't work unless they maintain the existing strength of females out of proportion to the existing strength of males, which there is no indication they are trying to or are able to do.

It would also show as a pretty obvious statistical blip, there was a graph knocking around that showed the effect of Carter's "trained soldier" change, but I can't find it.
 
Looks like an officer, is paid like an officer, has the same entitlements as an officer...and a commission. Possibly the same as the ARMY and RAF then? I've only said that an Army officer is unlikely to confide in a SNCO.

If an Army officer wont confide to a qualified SNCO, then hes a bit of a bellend.
There are a lot of people in the army who confused ability with rank.
If you have a medical/legal/welfare problem you would think most people would want the best qualified that is available (Which is what happens in the rest of the world) but in the Army, its based on rank for some people.
 
No need to be rude, it's unbecoming.

You really should heed this advice
FWIW, so you can attempt to fulfil your fixation with pigeonholing them in your quaint, blinkered military way. You should really try to get into the outside world some time, ideally before you are made to.

Otherwise you are going to be in the tabloids as a "Hero Veteran who has been abandoned by the Army" when you finally leave and have to face reality. (One of those realities is that generally no one gives a **** about rank on civvie street).
 
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If an Army officer wont confide to a qualified SNCO, then hes a bit of a bellend.
There are a lot of people in the army who confused ability with rank.
If you have a medical/legal/welfare problem you would think most people would want the best qualified that is available (Which is what happens in the rest of the world) but in the Army, its based on rank for some people.
If you add all your quote out of contexts together, the answer is still we have something in place now that sits outside of the CoC, attracts the right SQEP individuals and works, why get rid?
 
If you add all your quote out of contexts together, the answer is still we have something in place now that sits outside of the CoC, attracts the right SQEP individuals and works, why get rid?

Why get rid of people who are from sexist and homophobic organisations?
Why get rid of people who are costing more than need be, based on someone deciding a long time ago that they should be officers?
Why get rid of people who have only got the job because they are a certain religion?
Why get rid of people who have studied theology for 3 years instead of something that will help the wider army?

Do you think you can work that out by yourself?
 

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