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"Army goes on strike - Firemen to serve in Kosovo"

What is the consensus - should the military be allowed to strike in favour of better pay and conditions? Accommodation that doesn't leak? Equipment that allows the job to be done safely (eg a reliable rifle...) etc? Should we be allowed to join a Trade Union?

Is it an anomaly that Firemen and Ambulance Crews can strike, while the Police and the Military can't?

Or is it entirely sensible and justified that the two Services of last resort, responsible for protecting the public and maintaining order (ie military and police) are barred from taking Industrial Action?

Perhaps a tour of duty in the Balkans to cover striking soldiers is just what the Fire Service needs!! lol ;D
Hmmm. interesting point - the last time doctors had an unofficial walk out the death rates dropped dramatically! ???
I'm certainly not averse to soldiers having a route to redress grievances about their pay and conditions. However, if you form a coherent, unified (no pun intended) and organised body of opinion within the Army just consider the possible consequences:

1. Refusal to enter a situation where the death and maiming of large numbers of personnel for no immediate benefit  to Queen and Country can be discerned;

2. Refusal by individuals to carry out functions required of them for reasons of personal belief;

3. Lobbying by ORs to receive compensation for stress induced by mismanagement by officers;

Notice there is no direct political basis to these scenarios (not even #1, because unions exist to also protect the health and safety of their members).

And what if you got a charasmatic, articulate, corageous and hugely respected individual at the head of this union - who then didn't agree with the Govt of the day's foreign policy?

My socialist heart loves the idea, my capitalist head feels exceedingly nervous at the prospect...
.......And what if you got a charasmatic, articulate, corageous and hugely respected individual at the head of this union - who then didn't agree with the Govt of the day's foreign policy?
Et voila!...you have a coup! ;D


What is this thing you have with coups Eagle!!

Take it to its logical conclusion - who in the military (I suppose we'd better not leave out the other 2 services) is seriously going to make a competent job of running a nation of nearly 60 million people (save the smart arse answers for another thread). Just think about that concept for a moment.

And with what regard do you think the military would be held if, and when, civilian govt was returned? Do you really think anyone would ever trust the military again?

This isn't West Africa. (and I have personally experienced 2 coups in that region - one quite civilised and one that was f*****g awful.)
On the subject of coups:

Just wait until the papers from 1973-4 are released.

Then at last we will know the truth of what happened to 16 Independant Airborne Brigade and a number of Generals careers.

Or will we????
We don't need those papers to know what happened ! it's common knowledge! Good ol' FK.....I remember someone telling me that a book of his witticisms and FK stories was being collated, but I've never seen it in print. As he's over from his retirement pad in Kenya for a certain inquiry, maybe we should just ask him...

I met him once, but that's a story for another thread...
And with what regard do you think the military would be held if, and when, civilian govt was returned? Do you really think anyone would ever trust the military again?
I should think they'd be eternally grateful to us for halting the advance of all this PC kerfuffle - eh what, [snort]!!!

Carry on! ;) ;D
Perhaps we could be paid as much as the Tube drivers?
According to the metro the Army is no longer getting play at being fireman sam, as they have to concentrate  on training for role and building sandcastles!

As for tube drivers - how hard is it to drive something that sits in a tunnel!

Yes its noisy and a bit smelly, but they really are taking the piss- its not as if they have to dig a hole in the mud, live in it through rain and shine and get annoyed by wasps for a living!!
But I thought you guys liked that stuff, that's why you joined the infantry! ;D That would be a good thread - Reasons to Join the Infantry....

Anyway, getting back to RXRs Q, would you have felt better/feel better if you had the option of a Union? I just culdn't see it working - you'd get the likes of Wayne Kerr thinking anyone in a union was a raving pinko lefty thingy, and forming an alternative union - I suspect it would be devisive.

And I have a feeling the psychology is all wrong - soldiers get shunted around by the system and take a perverse pride in putting up with the amount of sh*t handed out to them (yes you do! admit it!), but I'm not sure they would go along with being shunted around by one of their own....
it is why i joined the infantry - being cold wet and miserable reminds me that my civvie job isn't so bad after all ;D
Why have none of the papers commented on the irony of the firemen's strike being broken by soldiers who get nearly half what the firemen do, yet are expected to hazard their lives and work far harder and for longer hours? I appreciate that we know this but do "they"?
With regard to all you cynics who say that the Green Godess is an unreliable piece of crap..

I hear that there is an A2 version which is actually the best fire engine in the world, although Marines find it difficult to wash and still can't go right around corners.

I was listening to some old crusty a while back and he said that during the last Green Goddess extravaganza the discrepency between the pay packet of fireman Sam and Tommy Atkins did come to light, and lo! it came to pass that the Army got a sly 20% back-hander!  

I reckon that the current climate: fire and Gulf War II should ...hopefully...prick the conscience of the politicos, and our annorexic wallets may be fed.....maybe...
can't be bothered waiting for that to load, just give me an idea!  I tell you what though (and this in no way reflects what I think soldiers should get - whatever it is I'm sure it should be more), the average wage in civpop is not that high. I am staggered when I read what teachers/nurses/a lot of middle managers get. It's v low compared to a 38 year old major.
Rates of pay from 1 Apr 02:

WO1: 30,565.10 - 37,021.95
WO2: 28,550.30 - 34,251.60
SSGT: 26,312.85 - 33,295.30
SGT: 23,772.45 - 29,243.80
CPL: 20,545.85 - 26,280.00
LCPL: 16,111.10 - 22,918.35
PTE: 12,577.90 - 20,910.85

The lowest salaries are the entry levels for Lower Range (courtesy of Pay 2000!), while the highest salaries are the top levels for the Higher Range.


My mate is currently on an s-type and went off to Belize last week. He's back now though, waiting to do fireman duty. He goes to Scotland on the 24th for the training.
And he's really happy about it   NOT.

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