Army families still in poor housing

#2
Kevan Jones MP wants to have a word with himself - forget the puff piece Kevan Jones and do your job. I notice that every single time that a report like this surfaces, the government spokesman of the day (it's a fast moving ticket, Kevan), they all try and deflect the poor housing and maintenance regime, that service families endure, whilst their loved ones are on Ops.

It simply is not good enough, and to hear a Minister trying to defend the current situation is sickening.

Thanks for posting this Hackle - well aware that BAFF has campaigned on this issue for many years now, and well done to Caroline Wyatt for yet another well put piece.

Kevan Jones MP might do well to consider that if his department was functioning effectively, that Caroline Wyatt wouldn't get the opportunity to produce such an item. How many months to the next one I wonder?
 
#3
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
 
#4
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
Prick.
 
#5
Brilliant how they always show Blandford as a showcase of housing. Millions being spent so the Army can sell them off at a later date!
 
#7
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
You are a tube! I would happily pay £100 a week if the standard was worth it, but it's not. The Army does not owe me a living? Are you feckin mental as well as stoopid? Of course it owes me a living, that's why it pays me a wage you tool! Clearly you don't and never have had the privilage of living in SFA. Let's explain a few basics then shall we: The Army require me to fulfil it's requirements by serving wherever they want me to. I have a family. They require housing. You do the fucking maths! The Army got saddled with a government scheme to subcontract the housing requirements (Annington Homes) who then let the property back to the Army via DE. DE have subcontracted the maintenance of it's properties to MHS (Making Housing Shit). The whole fucking system stinks......much like your attitude.
 

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#8
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
What planet are you on, you knob?

You can expect a home that is dry, secure, not going to make you ill and is fit for habitation.

If a council handed out Social Housing in the state that SFA is often in, then there would be hell to pay. Why should we, as service men and women, expect any less?

And yes, the Army DOES owe me a living. I have so far devoted 15 years of my life to the Army, and many have given far, far more. I'm sure that entitles me to a living!
 
#9
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
The army rents are decided by the AFPRB are are the average of Council rents throughout UK. The difference is that over one third are not fit to live in. Regarding renting privately many families elect to live in quarters so that they can get some semblance of family life in between operational commitments. Your comment implies that service personnel do not have the right to complain. If that is the case no other workers have the right to complain, after all they all volunteer to do the jobs they do. So they should just leave?

The fact is that no other job would pay so little for the hours worked and risks taken. Surly they can expect decent housing for their families in such circumstances?
 
#10
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
Ever heard of TACOS? It is part of the contract - it isn't some perk that we should be grateful for - it makes up the whole package.

If we were all supposed to rent privately to get a basic standard of housing then the salaries would have to go up massively just like our civilian counterparts who work in similar conditions.
 
#11
asr1 said:
The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
What, like you did you pathetic little creature.

"I'm a senior captain (signed off, out in september).

and also:

"I cannot face any more of the nonsense paperwork that is 90% of my job".

Wouldn't be your blokes 'Application for SFA' would it?

It would appear that your transition into civvy street has not dampened your bitterness and feelings of inadequacy. Never mind, I'm sure the blokes gave you a rousing cheer as you exited the barracks.
 
#12
There should be caution on this subject and yes the situation for some is awful. The situation did not appear overnight and the Army and the MoD should shoulder a huge chunk of the blame. Where were the reports when the buildings were deteriorating?

The reporters seem to always be taken to the worst examples and do not report in context, no surprise there.

The Government has been forced to act and in the areas where the job has been done the conditions are far higher than those for a lot of civvies. A problem that developed over 40 years can not be fixed overnight.

There is a real risk of compassion fatigue developing over this one.
 
#14
western said:
There should be caution on this subject and yes the situation for some is awful. The situation did not appear overnight and the Army and the MoD should shoulder a huge chunk of the blame. Where were the reports when the buildings were deteriorating?

The reporters seem to always be taken to the worst examples and do not report in context, no surprise there.

The Government has been forced to act and in the areas where the job has been done the conditions are far higher than those for a lot of civvies. A problem that developed over 40 years can not be fixed overnight.

There is a real risk of compassion fatigue developing over this one.
Agreed to an extent western, re the compassion fatigue and only the worst examples making it to screen. The very reason these "extreme cases" become the showcase, is (IMHO) because all of the other low-level, "doors don't close properly" type stuff does not compel the government into considering this issue, and would quite likely to be seen as dripping.

The fact remains however, that for a number of military families, they are forced to endure housing conditions that would see a private landlord in court. Too many families are suffering real public health issues due to the condition of the quarter they are given, with children diagnosed with conditions such as asthma and bronchiatus watching their conditions deteriate due to the damp quarter they live in.

Your question "Where were the reports when the buildings were deteriorating?" - I'm sure the reports existed, you don't manage this amount of real estate without some pretty well defined metrics and strategies involved.

The real question being, why did subsequent governments choose to ignore the long term impact as opposed to the short-term saving from "maintenance" budgets. The MOD collectively takes the PR hit for this reason, in much the same way that Stafford Hospital is not representative of every other hospital in the NHS.

Interested to hear your rationale on how Caroline's report is out of context. I didn't see it as a stitch-up, and thought it was quite balanced given the subject nature. I'm sure that it would have been pretty easy to find a "Donna Tucker" to speak out - there normally is. :)
 
#15
I did not say the report was out of context just that the images do not show housing in average condition, the focus is always only on the worst and gives the impression that every house is like that.

Your points are valid, but they are being addressed to the tune of many millions of mounds, constantly going back to them could in the future be construed as whinging.

The fact remains however, that for a number of military families, they are forced to endure housing conditions that would see a private landlord in court. Too many families are suffering real public health issues due to the condition of the quarter they are given, with children diagnosed with conditions such as asthma and bronchiatus watching their conditions deteriate due to the damp quarter they live in.
I would strongly advise anyone in this position to bring it to the attention of their CoC and when this fails take the Army to court. Are you suggesting that parents are letting their childres suffer long term health problems because they are scared to challenge it?
 
#16
Cheers western - okay re the "letting their children suffer,' cos their too scared to challenge" - completey see your point, not convinced that the challenge is heard / acted upon in a timely manner though.

Agreed with your CoC comment advice completely, as for taking them to court, I'm sure you meant "if this fails" and not "when this fails"!

As for the large piles of tax pounds - yep - and what's the betting that there are more than one or two chief execs sat at the top of this particular tree, who are to property management what Fred Goodwin is to banking?
 
#17
western said:
...I would strongly advise anyone in this position to bring it to the attention of their CoC and when this fails take the Army to court. Are you suggesting that parents are letting their childres suffer long term health problems because they are scared to challenge it?
As a matter of interest, BAFF has already referred serving members affected by serious accommodation issues to the Federation's lawyers for legal advice and, potentially, court action against the MOD.

BAFF spokespeople giving TV, radio and newspaper interviews about service accommodation have stressed every time that most of it is good to acceptable and that the average standard is improving, due to better planning and funding by MOD.

BAFF mentioned this (or words to that effect) yet again on BBC Radio Scotland this morning, Wed 18 March.

Unfortunately the welcome improved efforts by MOD are still playing catch-up after years of relative neglect.

According to the National Audit Office report, it will be TWENTY YEARS before all service family accommodation is brought up to standard. If they are particularly unlucky, someone could join tomorrow and spend a full career without ever getting the benefit of improved accommodation. Like The Royal British Legion, BAFF say the target should be changed to FIVE years.
 
#18
western said:
I did not say the report was out of context just that the images do not show housing in average condition, the focus is always only on the worst and gives the impression that every house is like that.
Even if not all houses are like that its disgusting to see even one or two houses in that state :/
 
#19
pombsen-armchair-warrior said:
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
Prick.
Fcuking seconded! :x
 
#20
asr1 said:
If your husband is being paid £20k a year and your accommodation is £100 a month what can you expect?

It is not reasonable to expect Bellagio treatment if you are paying a pittance for rent. The army doesn't owe you a living - if you don't like it and you think you can do better elsewhere then get hubby to leave, or rent privately (at current market rates).
You're a bit of cnut, aren't you? In fairness, it has to be said.

The housing (SFA or SLA) is fitted in to the grand scheme of pay.

And you are correct many people are leaving, which is a bit of a problem because that means there are no soldiers to do the many tasks required.

By all means raise my accomodation charges to civvie levels, then see what kind of standard the tennants and law will REQUIRE.

Or even let me live in my own house, but I'll need to be employed closer to home because the commute at the moment would be a bit of long one.

Then figure that some sort of increase in pay may be required..... because now with parity between Civialian and Military housing lads will leave more readily.

As mentioned, if you want the hubby to go abroad and go on tours (with all the implied extras) then you HAVE to ensure his family are looked after.

Anyone from the Labour party should stop saying this is a legacy problem... they have been in power for 12 years and should have sorted it by now. The MoD only started caring about the state of accomodation becuase it started hitting recruiting and retention.

So in synopis, Government/MoD could try harder and asr1 is a be11end.
 

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