Army could be needed in UK prisons

#3
If you believe the press most of the inmates have been squaddies at one point so all they need to do is put them on the other side of the door. Three birds with one stone, reduce overcrowding, increase the guard force and reduce the possibility of riots.
 
#4
What does he expect the army to do considering they are not trained as prison officers.
 
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#5
Why is the stock response to shortfalls in ability or capacity in pretty much any field 'send in the army'?

How about just ensuring the responsible agency has enough adequately-trained staff in the first place?
 
#6
What does he expect the to do considering they are not trained as prison officers.
Presumably there'd be some form of pre-deployment training...?

Mostly in fending off upset union officials, no doubt.
 
#8
#9
Why is the stock response to shortfalls in ability or capacity in pretty much any field 'send in the army'?

How about just ensuring the responsible agency has enough adequately-trained staff in the first place?
Because it means Ministers don't have to make hard decisions.
 
#10
Presumably there'd be some form of pre-deployment training...?

Mostly in fending off upset union officials, no doubt.
You'd be surprised just how much training it takes to become a Prison Officer so probably nothing of any use. Whether they receive any training could depend on whether they are going to operate in a similar way to the "normal" regime. If you have 23hr lockdown then very little training is required.
 
#11
You'd be surprised just how much training it takes to become a Prison Officer so probably nothing of any use. Whether they receive any training could depend on whether they are going to operate in a similar way to the "normal" regime. If you have 23hr lockdown then very little training is required.
Doesnt seem to take too long, from HM Prison & Probation Service Careers

Step 6: Placement/ Prison officer entry-level training (POELT) course – Once you have passed the vetting process, you will be invited to attend a Prison Officer Entry-Level Training course, based at your allocated establishment and one of a number of training sites across England and Wales. Once you pass the POELT course, you will begin working at your allocated establishment. Prison officer training is 12 weeks in duration; 10 weeks of that is the POELT course and weeks 1 and 12 are hosted by the home establishment. • Week 1 provides new officers with the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the establishment layout, the role of the establishment and the work they will be expected to carryout after training. • Week 2 – 11 is formal training which is delivered at one of a number of training sites across England and Wales, this is known as Prison Officer Entry Level Training (POELT). • On successful completion of the formal training new officers will return to their establishment for week 12 where they will have a consolidation week, this gives them the opportunity to apply the learning from formal training. The whole process from application to starting your job as a prison officer will take a minimum of 10 weeks. It can take longer depending on your employment history and references. Good luck with your application.
 
#12
Doesnt seem to take too long, from HM Prison & Probation Service Careers

Step 6: Placement/ Prison officer entry-level training (POELT) course – Once you have passed the vetting process, you will be invited to attend a Prison Officer Entry-Level Training course, based at your allocated establishment and one of a number of training sites across England and Wales. Once you pass the POELT course, you will begin working at your allocated establishment. Prison officer training is 12 weeks in duration; 10 weeks of that is the POELT course and weeks 1 and 12 are hosted by the home establishment. • Week 1 provides new officers with the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the establishment layout, the role of the establishment and the work they will be expected to carryout after training. • Week 2 – 11 is formal training which is delivered at one of a number of training sites across England and Wales, this is known as Prison Officer Entry Level Training (POELT). • On successful completion of the formal training new officers will return to their establishment for week 12 where they will have a consolidation week, this gives them the opportunity to apply the learning from formal training. The whole process from application to starting your job as a prison officer will take a minimum of 10 weeks. It can take longer depending on your employment history and references. Good luck with your application.
Entry level training, I know I did it (and much more). Key thing is though the MoD aren't going to provide 10 weeks training nor are they going to be able to provide the additional trg prison officers are mandated to do nor will they be able to provide the additional training, courses and years of experience Senior Officers aquire let alone the Principal Officers (if that rank still exists) and the numerous governor levels it takes to run a prison such as Belmarsh, Full Sutton, Wakefield etc.

I'd wager about the only thing Squadies would look forward to in the training is the Control & Restraint side of things, cell take outs etc. Boring stuff such as normal landing duties, escorts and observing in workplaces/gym/chapel etc wouldn't be high on their quality of life list. Mind you SQMS's would be an almost direct transfer for feeding, running the cleaners, supplies & laundry etc.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the pschologists & parole officers depts should the MoD get deployed though :)
 
#14


Well, if this is what a Prison Governor looks like no wonder the prisoners feel they can get away with what they like...

Perhaps if the Prison head sheds had a shave, smartened themselves up, maybe had a smart uniform as well, then they'd inspire some respect from the inmates...

 
#17
Army could be needed in UK prisons - former governor - BBC News

Mr Acheson said there was a danger a staff member could be murdered.

Much better it be a squaddie than a prison officer eh
These are the same 'Governor Grades' who took thier 50 pieces of silver and stood back whilst the uniformed grades were stabbed in the back by various Governments since 1987.

(First they came for the Socialist but it did not affect me as I was not a Socialist etc).

1987 the introduction of FRESH START, i.e. the new pay and conditions which were welshed on by the Government over a period of time. the reduction of uniformed grades, the reduction of ranks uniformed grades could achieve, and the ripping up of the MOUNTBATTEN REPORT.

The privatisation and market testing of prisons which devalued the skills that HM Prison Officers have. The same HM Prison Officers who have to attend private prisons to restore order during disturbances.

Then they wonder why all the 'OLD & BOLD' experienced Screws (mainly ex Squaddies and ex other uniformed jobs) jumped ship at the first chance, especially in the last 10 years.

Not to mentioned the number of experienced uniformed staff 'FORCED OUT' of the job because thier face did not fit or they did not agree with the latest pro PC crap being spouted at the time by the Left Wing Liberal Beard Wearing Scruffy Individuals who could not organise a drinking party in a brewery.

This is not a national emergency due to unexpected or unforeseen issues. This situation has been allowed to happen since 1987 due to poor political leadership at Government level, poor management by Prison Governors and greed by those that have gone along with the various schemes that have allowed individuals to profit at the expense of those in uniform.
 
#19
Colchester appears to get better results with less re-offending. Perhaps the MOD would do a better job, and the prisoners would be better controlled. Discipline would definitely be a lot tighter.
A rare glimpse inside the UK's only 'military prison' - BBC News

The lack of equable consequence in relation to crime and antisocial behaviour in society today, would seem to be at least one cause of what is happening.
There was a scheme a number of years back where civi prisoners were sent to Colly and Uniformed Prison Officers were there on detached duties.

I do not know how successful it was but all I remember was that some Screws were complaining that they were not being paid to bull their boots in the evenings!!!!
 
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#20
Former governor on last night's newsnight made a good point. Soldiers are soldiers not Prison Officers. What are they going to do? Chuck grenades at the lags?

Another talking head made an equally good point. When the smoking ban comes in to effect in prisons most of the prison population will go in to nicotine withdrawal. A smoking ban was implemented in American prisons a while ago. The silver lining is that most smuggling efforts in US prisons now go towards smuggling tobacco rather than loony dust like spice.

The Yanks manage to keep control of their prisons despite most of the lags in some jails being whole lifers with little to use. Extensive use of gas (CS rather than Zyklon), solitary confinement and more chains than an 18th Century plantation seem to do the trick. They can even turn gyms into dormitories for non violent prisoners without riots developing. Perhaps we should consult with them.
 

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