Army Chief "Military maps a joke"

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
There's a couple of points there.

Firstly - how in the hell are you going to map soviet-era and more recently mined areas? Do we use troops, do we walk around and ask people; ask the Russians maybe?

Secondly - is OS purely civvy these days? Should they not have a MOD ops arm to map foreign feilds in support of military operations? There's a large organisation there which is called Ordnance Survey, and with good reason.

There is also prior on mapping foreign countries in aid of the armed forces.

See the history, and why it was formed at Wiki
 
#3
No offence intended, but the title is a little misleading - since when has a Sgt been an army commander?

as for the maps - Defence Geographic people do incredible jobs and the work they produce is first rate. Anyone with an MOD map on their office wall will have used their stuff - the problem is that there is a limit to their resources, and in a mine infested country like Afghanistan, its going to take a while to get maps made of all the areas.
 
#4
42 Engineer Regiment (Geographic), Royal Engineers, are responsible for land mapping and they do have dets in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Although they tend to be the kind of Sappers who avoid mud and shovels like the plague, they are good at what the do. And in the absence of reliable records (in this case from the Soviet era) minefield mapping is very, very far from being an exact science.
 
#5
I have no experience in the field, and would like to point that out first off. However, even I can sensibly assume that calling maps of mined areas a joke is pretty unfair. Surely mapping minefields is fcuking hard work, the methods used to deploy mines and the very nature of minefields surely makes it nearly impossible to map an exact area to stay clear of? Obviously, the old journo machine has put it's own spin on this 'commanders' quotes as well. All in all, a pretty bollox article.
 
#6
The Time Team people (one that Baldrick presents) have all sorts of things that detect what is underground/disturbed soil. There was mention of such devices in police inquiries such as Jersey buried kids. Can we not adapt to hang below a chopper and get mine plans that way?

(Can't see this as OPSEC - apologies if so)
 
#7
jim30 said:
No offence intended, but the title is a little misleading - since when has a Sgt been an army commander?

as for the maps - Defence Geographic people do incredible jobs and the work they produce is first rate. Anyone with an MOD map on their office wall will have used their stuff - the problem is that there is a limit to their resources, and in a mine infested country like Afghanistan, its going to take a while to get maps made of all the areas.
I did mention that.I only cut and paste this stuff. :D
 
#8
OldRedCap said:
The Time Team people (one that Baldrick presents) have all sorts of things that detect what is underground/disturbed soil. There was mention of such devices in police inquiries such as Jersey buried kids. Can we not adapt to hang below a chopper and get mine plans that way?

(Can't see this as OPSEC - apologies if so)
Yes that irritating term 'geofizz' gets right up my nose. I think if there was an answer to the detection of old mine fields there would be a couple of new millionairs on this site.
 
#9
OldRedCap said:
The Time Team people (one that Baldrick presents) have all sorts of things that detect what is underground/disturbed soil. There was mention of such devices in police inquiries such as Jersey buried kids. Can we not adapt to hang below a chopper and get mine plans that way?
The obviously problem here is that you now have a sodding great bullet magnet pottering away in rather unpleasant areas
 
#11
Biped said:
Firstly - how in the hell are you going to map soviet-era and more recently mined areas? Do we use troops, do we walk around and ask people; ask the Russians maybe?
Use Z list 'celebrities' to walk around suspected mined areas (tell them a photographer from Hello magazine will be there) it's a win win option, find the clear routes through and potentially rid the world of useless irritating people :D
 
#12
kes1 said:
Biped said:
Firstly - how in the hell are you going to map soviet-era and more recently mined areas? Do we use troops, do we walk around and ask people; ask the Russians maybe?
Use Z list 'celebrities' to walk around suspected mined areas (tell them a photographer from Hello magazine will be there) it's a win win option, find the clear routes through and potentially rid the world of useless irritating people :D
But what would you rather have around your position? A high density mixed field or the Hello/Big Brother Bde? No contest for me. Bring on the bounding mines every time.
 
#13
Maybe hes an army chef not a chief? Ill get my coat....
 
#14
codename1157 said:
kes1 said:
Biped said:
Firstly - how in the hell are you going to map soviet-era and more recently mined areas? Do we use troops, do we walk around and ask people; ask the Russians maybe?
Use Z list 'celebrities' to walk around suspected mined areas (tell them a photographer from Hello magazine will be there) it's a win win option, find the clear routes through and potentially rid the world of useless irritating people :D
But what would you rather have around your position? A high density mixed field or the Hello/Big Brother Bde? No contest for me. Bring on the bounding mines every time.
Send them out first to clear the area then you can go... :wink:
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
I suspect I'd rather run the risk of getting k13'ed rather than have to put up with vacuous, self obsessed cnuts like the "celebs" from the Big Brootha Hoose. Also mine strikes probably cause far less PTSD.

Edit for possible brainwave: There is an old joke about what is the cheapest way to clear a mine field. Get 22 loacl kids and give them a football. Well yes, that would quicky make a major dent in the local civ pop. In Afghanistan they have had mine fields for 30-40 years right? That translates as 2-3 generations that have spent their childhood- possibly their entire lives- living with the threat of mine. Given that most of the population aren't amputees they must be doing something right. Why not try asking them? Using whatever incentives seem necessary (small handful for hi denomination dollar bills shoulf help).
 
#16
Just a thought. An Incident in Kosovo in 01 resulted in a CVR(T) being blown up by an AT mine on a route that was known to have been mined. The serbs had kindly supplied the map to demine the route, in fact I'm fairly sure the Engineer who supervised the laying assisted the clearing. Out of the x number of mines laid y were recovered, leaving one missing. The track was then failed. At least a week into driving up and down the cleared track the CVR(T) hit a mine.

Mine maps are as good as the Intel fed into them. Good intel, Good maps with definate mined ares marked. Bad or No Intel. Maps consisting of one huge red hatching and no bloody use to anyone.
 
#17
Trans you missed the point :roll:

Send them out (well before you) the mined areas get marked on the maps, you rid the world of 'vacuous, self obsessed cnuts', then you can go, mines and celeb free.
 
#18
Kes, unfortunately the law of averages means that at least one of the mongs would make it back. Cue Katona's latest best seller on "My Afghan Hell".

Again, I know what I'd rather mix with.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
codename1157 said:
Kes, unfortunately the law of averages means that at least one of the mongs would make it back. Cue Katona's latest best seller on "My Afghan Hell".

Again, I know what I'd rather mix with.
This was the line I was thinking along as well. Plus how many squaddies would end up shooting:-

a/ the celebs
b/ themselves
c/ each other

all simply in the name of getting away from the "OK!" magazine superstars?
 

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